Cattle die, kinsmen die, all men are mortal. Words of praise will never perish nor a noble name (2).

[james_davis_nicoll]

Remember Luke Jackson?

He's also Igor Sanchez.

And he apparently didn't appreciate being outed.

Comments

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

Well, then, if you haven't read the actual remarks, maybe you should, you know, do that before you go spouting off making accusations Teresa didn't even make in her initial post (unless, of course, she's re-re-re-edited. Or she hid something in the comments, as (http://chopchica.livejournal.com/163464.html) she does (http://tnh.livejournal.com/6434.html?thread=381986#t381986). ) At the time TNH's initial vendetta post was closed, her post did not accuse anyone of libel. Even those she thought were willfully misconstruing her pronouncement that she was making a list and taking it twice as a professional hit list, she merely denounced as drama queens trying to make themselves interesting.

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

Where did I say "libel"?

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

they were saying bad things that weren't true about her husband http://james-nicoll.livejournal.com/1627117.html?thread=26619629#t26619629

What do you think libel means?

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

Do you see him planning to sue? You've said libelous things in this conversation, but I'm not getting my back up.

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

Do you see him planning to sue? What does that have to do with any thing? Not filing a lawsuit does not negate the claim while the statute of limitations clock runs out.

You've said libelous things in this conversation What did I say that was not true? Do you believe Mac Stone's convenient fiction that she was talking about hatemail in her abuse post? Please, read for yourself.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/starkeymonster/macstone1.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/starkeymonster/macstone2.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/starkeymonster/macstone3.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d17/starkeymonster/macstone4.jpg

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

You called "your side" anti-racist. And, frankly, I have no idea who Mac Stone is, and I'm not going to look. In fact, I'm going to nap now because I hurt a lot. Feel free to answer, I'll probably reply when I get up.

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

1) I am against racism, and the people who have been disagreeing with the statements of Teresa, Patrick, et al have been doing so on the basis that their statements are racist.

2) It's not libel if it's not bad. I am not under the impression that 'anti-racist' is a bad label. Are you?

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

Can't quite bring yourself to say it, can you. The people on "your side" think Patrick and Teresa are racist, but either you're afraid to say it in public or you don't quite believe it. You've been a little rabid here, so I suspect it's the former. I don't remember seeing you on James' LJ before -- what brought you over?

I've known P&T online and occasionally in person for many years and I've never seen them be racist. I suspect their many friends of color haven't, either.

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

I haven't called them racists because I don't have any evidence Patrick subscribes to a conscious theory of white supremacy, and That Woman's bad behavior is so tied up in protecting her husband and proving this particular argument, I wouldn't feel comfortable generalizing to her ordinary philosophy on race relations.

I haven't actually been rabid here. I thought you had information I didn't (namely, the nature of 'bad acts' against Patrick) and then I was just stunned at your general ignorance.

But most importantly, I'm not calling them racists because I don't actually care the bright shiny glow of their ineffable inner being, I want them to stop their racist behavior.

Good day, madam.

P.S. rydra_wong has been collecting links on RaceFail09 since January 12. Teresa and Patrick don't enter into it until the 20th or so.

[fridgepunk.livejournal.com]

I should point out that PNH himself said he was in fact racist in the comments of the last LJ post he put up before baaletting himself, in that "everyone is racist, therefore saying I have been racist at any one holding up any particular moment of racism on my part is just being mean and how very dare you sir" way that some well meaning but wrong doing left wing white people seem to like to cling to.

Now as he's also acted like a bit of an overly privelaged jerk prior to deleting himself, I am more than willing to take his "but I am a racist" statements as fact.

I should also point out that the first person to use the word racist in relation to PNH was oddly enough Stross, doing the exact same "I'll vouch for his non-racistness, even though that means nothing coming from another white person and is not actually an arguement so much as a solipstic statement of unverifiable fact, seeing as I've made no definition of what constitutes a 'racist' which can be used to verify the statement against PNH's actions" thing you just did there.

Also "some of his best friends are POC" is somewhat problematic because 1, they are not saying that themselves, 2, you cannot know whether they actually think he's a magically unique nono-racist white person due to, and I'm just guessing here, a lack of psychic powers on your part, therefore 3, you are using them as a tool to support a white person wihtout caring about their actual thoughts or feelings on the subject, thus both tokenising and dehumanising them in a way that I would not expect of you.

You are someone who I had gotten the impression understood the basic requirement of all people to respect other people's human rights and the basic dignity of other people. I am really sorry that I might have been wrong about that.

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

Well, everybody is racist, in the US, at least. It will take generations to get rid of that. You can be anti-racist and still have some racism. There are people of color who are racist (I have a neighbor who lost her federal job because she was biased against non-black people), my city hates Hispanic immigrants, and I do actually know that some of Patrick's friends of color have commented on this in his favor. Feel free to consider that last unfounded, since I'm definitely not going to give you their LJ IDs.

IANAL

[redbird]

Libel is a false statement that damages someone's reputation. Opinions rarely if ever count as libel in US law, and it's not libel if it's not connected to a specific person.

Re: IANAL

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

Yes, although typically libel has the additional factor of being recorded.