"Marion Zimmer Bradley: It’s Worse Than I Knew"

[james_davis_nicoll]

memetic prophylactic recommended

Comments

[jjhunter]

oh god.

(Thank you for signal boosting; if there's anything we as a community can do to make sure neither of those people harm a child ever again, it's worth bearing with the nausea of knowing enough details to dispel any wisp of temptation to doubt or reject.)

that being said: oh god. I do not have words for this beyond desire to protect the victims affected from further harm and to projectile vomit my unsettled stomach on their abusers. How divorced from human feeling would someone have to be to—

god.

[gale_storm]

...

.

..

...

Thank you for sharing this, and now I really understand how much a memetic prophylactic could be needed.

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

That's sad and upsetting news, and my heart goes out to Ms. Greyland.

[seth ellis (from livejournal.com)]

When I first learned about Walter Breen's activities, I did a bit of research, and there were dark hints that though her abetting was well known, Bradley had known/done more than was publicly acknowledged. There was nothing definite, but this is, sadly, not a surprise.

Interesting also that on Twitter, the people whose reaction to the new allegations is "I'd heard that some time ago" are all women, who apparently were alerted through the Anti-Creeper Ladies' Mutual Warning Society that stood in for actual community standards for so long.

ETA: I should also have said, sympathies and respect to Greyland for speaking out.

[murasaki-1966.livejournal.com]

Oh god. That is horrible.

[dryadinthegrove]

Oh shit.

I just literally groaned and covered my eyes after that opening sentence.

Oddly enough, I'm having a cleanout of my home library, and I got rid of almost all of MZB's books. I was feeling guilty about that, but no more.

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

Sigh.

[mme-hardy.livejournal.com]

Damn. I am so sorry for her daughter.

And, yeah, those books are leaving my house; not as some sort of posthumous virtual punishment, but because I won't be able to read them again.

[ravenskyewalker.livejournal.com]

Oh... God. I read Moira's opening words about being three when it first happened, cursed, jumped out of my chair and walked away, then came back to deal with reading all of it. That is just vile. And from following links and reading further info, I see that an unknown number of people are attempting to discredit Moira by claiming she's been in mental institutions all her life. *sigh*

[cofax7]

Oh, good Christ.

I still have some Darkover novels in boxes somewhere: I guess I'll contribute them to the library book sale, because god knows I'm never rereading them.

[treddytrafalgar.livejournal.com]

Is this why last week's Bradley tribute post on tor.com has been taken down?

[etumukutenyak.livejournal.com]

Another former fan getting rid of my books too. I'm tempted to burn them, though, along with the Anthony books, as I can't stomach the thought of unsuspecting innocents admiring their books.

[adrian-turtle.livejournal.com]

I am so sorry for her daughter.

Sometimes I get caught up in rhetoric, and say people should be blamed for abuse if they advocate for it (supporting abusers, silencing victims, etc.) Then something like this comes to my attention, and I realize I don't really believe it. When I thought MZB supported and defended her child-abusing husband, I was outraged, but I could separate that from my feelings about her work. Now that I see she, herself, abused children...my outrage overflows.

[tavella.livejournal.com]

You know, one of the things that gets me -- you can still see people going on about Breendoggle occasionally. And I don't think any one of the people that got up in arms about the horror of banning a child rapist who was using cons to hunt for victims ever apologized. Maybe 50 years ago they were ignorant enough to think it was okay for him to fuck 11 year olds because "freedom" and "non-discrimination", but they goddamn well knew by the 21st century.

A whole lot of kids got abused because fandom decided to "protect their own", and I see a line of that thought running right down to Wiscon just last month. And it's about goddamn time it ended.

[(Anonymous)]

So, I understand why you used the MPR tag - but usually you use that for linking to writing/writers that are THEMSELVES wrong/awful/etc.

I know that you don't in this case mean that, but it does strongly give that impression.

Marna, too tired to log in.

[neowolf2.livejournal.com]

Where is the money from MZB's literary estate going, do you know?

[felila.livejournal.com]

I used to quite like MZB, and still have many of her books (packed away at the moment, like most of my SFF). It came to seem thin gruel and I haven't read any MZB in years.

I think I did most of my buying and reading before I heard about Breen; I think that would have been on rec.arts.sf.fandom. I was squicked by what I heard, but not to the extent that people here seem to be. I was part of the let-it-all-hang-loose 70s. Never had anything to do with underage folks, nor knew anyone who did ... but I remember the dogged determination to flout all the bourgeois hang-ups. If you have a shaky moral compass, that can lead you into a morass.

Never heard anyone talking about MZB committing abuse, just the enabling.

I am not sure that knowing this now would taint her books if I re-read them. Perhaps the books with group sex. Do not remember anything in the books re sex with minors.

Seems as if there's a bit of a lynch mob atmosphere here. I do not think it necessary to burn her books if you disapprove of the abuse.

The attack on Jo Walton also seem somewhat off-kilter. I've read Among Others twice and thought it very clear that the narrator was accepting, in a stolid, naive way, things that the reader would find unacceptable.

[(Anonymous)]

I think this is a perfect example of separating the artist from the art. I mean, it's absolutely horrible, of course, but I've read her books several times now and thoroughly enjoyed them. I don't feel bad, either, because it wasn't as if there was anything within them that even indicated her depravity.

Here's a hypothetical situation: what if someone discovered that J.K. Rowling was a pedophile (obviously it isn't true, so no libel intended). Would that make her Harry Potter series any less amazing? Not really, no. Sure, I'd lose every ounce of respect I had for the author, but that won't stop me from loving Harry Potter's character.