I could explain why I am not replying to Shetterly's comments

[james_davis_nicoll]

But frankly coffeeandink did it better than I could.

sparkymonster's contribution is also of note

Comments

[winterknight.livejournal.com]

I'd just like to note that someone who goes by "sparklymonster" just pwned Mr. Shetterly in the intart00bz. Something about that pleases me no end.

[spiralsheep.livejournal.com]

Psst... that would be sparkymonster. :-)

[winterknight.livejournal.com]

*laughs* oops. i have the dumbs so bad; i wish that LJ posts came with a .sig file wherein i could apologize in advance. it still makes me happy for a totally inane reason. it's just the dissonance between \0/sparkymonster!(Tits or it didn't happen!) and >.-!!Mr. Shetterly(dignified gentleman essayist) and the associated behaviours of the same.

[glinda-w.livejournal.com]

I am so staying out of that whole thing; it's a good thing I've trained myself to just ignore certain people's posts and walk away.

*shakes head*

[anton-p-nym.livejournal.com]

I agree; LJ has giant buckets of crazy on it, and sometimes there's just no way to adapt my concept of reality in order to make any meaningful exchange. (Or their concepts are so hurtful to me that it's not worth the pain to do so.)

-- Steve's wondering if anyone's tried getting a SETI grant for studying cross-list flamewars as possible failure models for interspecies communication.

[thesaucernews.livejournal.com]

I loved Dogland so much, I figured I had to friend him... but it's nothing but screeds on socialism and class warfare with him. nothing but.

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

That's funny. I've read most of his fiction except that one and the sequel.

[thesaucernews.livejournal.com]

It's actually the only thing of his I have read.

Possible irony

[grimjim.livejournal.com]

Of the two, I readskimmed the former title when it was made available on Tor's web site. The sprinkling of historical events reminded me a bit of what I've been told of Forrest Gump and what I saw when I watched The Curious Case of Benjamin Button; the novel featured a magical negro or few.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

I'm a socialist, class warfare makes sense to me, and I have loved many of his books, but statements like the one linked to above still offend me - *sigh*

[vito-excalibur.livejournal.com]

That's what everyone's been trying to tell you!

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Will:

For at least ten years, people have been disagreeing with you about this topic. Smart people. People who have studied this topic at least as much as you have.

And, mainly, they've all had similar, or at least, consistent, arguments. Hundreds upon hundreds of smart, well-educated people who have studied these issues have presented you with dozens of interlocking arguments which form a consistent and solid framework of evidence which demonstrate the strength of their position.

On the other hand, there is you. One person who's studied these arguments.

Which is more likely? That hundreds of people have researched this topic and all independently reached the same erroneous conclusions, or that you've reached an erroneous conclusion? Which is more likely? That you are wrong, or that hundreds of other people, all equally as smart as you, are all independently wrong?

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

They say Patrick, that racist, is a coward for disengaging from the discussion, and then they ban me because I won't.

False dichotomy. You're not distinguishing between engaging in a *productive* manner and engaging in an unproductive, distracting, denialist, bullying manner.

People aren't banning you because you won't stop engaging in the discussion. They're banning you because you've proven over and over again that you're incapable of engaging on this topic in a productive manner.

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

Also, since you're here and I can't stop myself from talking, since I didn't eat dinner and I can't think, I will note:

I, as an anti-racist, do not actually call Patrick a coward. I think that, if he either thought discussion wasn't getting anywhere, or if he thought he wanted to calm down, or if he thought that he wanted OTHER people to cool down, or if he was hurt, or any number of other options, well, those are valid reasons to withdraw/disengage.

You've basically demonstrated that you don't change your opinions no matter what anyone does, so therefore, people figure there's no good reason to engage.

Also, since you bring it up, I distinguish between societal racism (of the 'you're soaking in it!' variety) and specific racist actions.

I think several of the people you name possibly had a few racist actions, but I also don't think that makes them (or you) irredeemably evil. So g'bye with that canard.

[annafdd.livejournal.com]

Because Velma is nobody, and I am too. Cheers!

[mattador.livejournal.com]

Not replying after making a post attacking him - whether or not the attack and the criticism within it was justified - makes you look less than classy.

[winterknight.livejournal.com]

When the post is about WHY he doesn't reply to Mr. Shetterly's comments, it would seem that you have plunged into a loop of FAIL with this comment that equals some of my personal bests. I think it was classy of him not to preemptively ban Mr. Shetterly and to allow Mr. Shetterly space in his own journal to engage with those who have the time and energy -- though perhaps it was a move to prove his point, but I'd rather assume that James is a classy guy (in addition to being insightful, obliquely cutting in a particularly singular and charming manner, and devastatingly handsome)*.

*If Mr. Shetterly is allowed to bring his fantasy world into your comments, James, so am I.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

I never thought I'd see the day where a mention of white Unitarian contributions to the civil rights movement would make me feel embarrassed.

Live and learn, I guess.

[knitmeapony.livejournal.com]

Hah, yes!

[jjhunter]

YES. I have to consciously stop myself from jumping in and saying, 'No! Not all of us Unitarians are like that!' and 'Guess what? My grandmother hosted African-American activists from the NAACP in her own home during the 'civil rights era,' but much as I love her, that didn't mean she was never racist' and 'Hon, don't even get me started on the subject of John Brown, who did a spectacular job of showing how one can be both an abolitionist and a racist (and a fanatical mass-murderer--I'm looking at you and your history in Bleedin' Kansas, sir!)'...

If Obama's own white grandmother could and would say racist things about strangers even as she raised her own, much beloved biracial grandchild, I think it's pretty clear that there is nothing a white person can do to completely throw out one's white privilege and its effects not just on other people's interactions with one but on how one perceives the world.

[kuangning]

Good God.

No, really, that's all I have to say. I'm glad this is landing in your inbox and not mine, sir. I hope you're off having coffee and playing Immovable Comfy Lap to one or more of your kitties.