Date: 2009-01-02 04:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pats-quinade.livejournal.com
I'm sad to know that there'll be no more Dortmunder, at least not by the man who brought him to life. Others may quite justifiably him for his other works, but for me, he was always the king of the caper.

Date: 2009-01-02 04:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] james-nicoll.livejournal.com
at least not by the man who brought him to life.

I hope nobody tries to write a Dortmunder book. Inspired by, sure, but the odds of someone successfully pulling off a Westlakian Dortmunder are too small to risk the worst case scenarios.

Date: 2009-01-02 05:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pats-quinade.livejournal.com
Oh, I completely agree. I just have fears of the ham-handed mystery equivalent of Kevin J. Anderson coming in to take a crack at it.

Date: 2009-01-02 07:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ffutures.livejournal.com
or Spider Robinson...

Date: 2009-01-02 03:32 pm (UTC)
ext_6388: Avon from Blake's 7 fails to show an emotion (GurrenBrigade)
From: [identity profile] fridgepunk.livejournal.com
Has Anderson and Robinson ever collaboarted together on a book?

Date: 2009-01-03 12:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mjlayman.livejournal.com
I think that's a typo, but collaboarted is an excellent word for what they'd do.

Date: 2009-01-02 01:19 pm (UTC)
kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (Default)
From: [personal profile] kate_nepveu
The book due in April is a Dortmunder novel, at least.

I'm sad to hear it, but he had a good long run.

Date: 2009-01-02 07:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ffutures.livejournal.com
Damn - and with him go Richard Stark and several other alter egos. He/they will be missed.

Date: 2009-01-02 11:58 am (UTC)
ext_58972: Mad! (Default)
From: [identity profile] autopope.livejournal.com
I'm unfamiliar with Westlake. Where should I start?

Date: 2009-01-02 01:26 pm (UTC)
kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (Default)
From: [personal profile] kate_nepveu
The Dortmunder books are comic capers of whose main character a recent book opened, "John Dortmunder was a man on whom the sun shone only when he needed darkness," which should give you an idea of what his luck is like.

I'm particularly fond of: _The Hot Rock_ (stealing the same gem five or six times), _Bank Shot_ (stealing a bank--not robbing it, stealing it), _Good Behavior_ (freeing a kidnapped nun whose father is trying to deprogram her out of the Catholic Church), _Don't Ask_ (stealing a saint's relic, with bonus kidnapping and revenge), and _What's the Worst that Could Happen?_ (the high point of the series, IMO, as Dortmunder tries to get back a ring a householder stole from *him*).

Avoid _Drowned Hopes_ and _The Road to Ruin_.

I like Westlake's comic side so have generally avoided his darker stuff written under the name Richard Stark.

Date: 2009-01-02 01:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] llennhoff.livejournal.com
Really? Drowned hopes is my favorite, closely followed by Good Behavior. What didn't you like about Hopes?

Date: 2009-01-02 03:36 pm (UTC)
kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (Default)
From: [personal profile] kate_nepveu
I'm not looking for that dark a novel when I read a Dortmunder book.

Date: 2009-01-02 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] llennhoff.livejournal.com
OK. I saw it more as justice than darkness, but I can see where you are coming from. Drowned Hopes appealed to my inner geek as well - watching them move from plans with no chance whatsoever of working to the final plan was enjoyable for its own sake.

I was also impressed by May's behavior. She's usually a cipher to me, and here she shows both courage and a high degree of faith in Dortmunder.

Date: 2009-01-02 05:34 pm (UTC)
kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (Default)
From: [personal profile] kate_nepveu
It was the level of tension and consequences in the whole book for me.

Is this the one where May quits smoking?

Date: 2009-01-03 03:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] martin-wisse.livejournal.com
That was the first Dortmunder book I read and it was weird because it took me so long to figure out that, hey, this is actually intentionally funny.

Date: 2009-01-02 01:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jhetley.livejournal.com
Just about anywhere -- they don't depend that much on each other. I prefer the Dortmunder stories to his other stuff, but that's personal prejudice.

Date: 2009-01-02 01:50 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I've just started reading him, so in addition to the Dortmunder novels I would recommend the Parker books (written under his Richard Stark name). Start with the first book (The Hunter) which has been filmed twice.

Andrew Wheeler's recommendations got me interested in Westlake.

Date: 2009-01-02 03:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] carloshasanax.livejournal.com
And after Dortmunder and Parker, there's Kahawa. Westlake originally planned for it to be a funny caper novel; but it's set in Idi Amin's Uganda. It's probably his most fully realized book, and that's saying something.

Date: 2009-01-02 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] james-nicoll.livejournal.com
Kahawa and Why Me? were the first and second Westlakes I ever read.

Date: 2009-01-02 04:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dd-b.livejournal.com
I've never found Westlake really clicked for me very often, but I know a lot of other people feel differently. So my picks may be idiosyncratic or some such.

A Likely Story has a history of appealing to writers, and is good.

The Ax is a brilliantly horrifying book that I certainly would not want to reread. (I'll happily go into why, but it'll be deep spoiler territory pretty soon.)

And Under an English Heaven is non-fiction about Antigua revolting to get to remain under British rule.


Date: 2009-01-03 06:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drelmo.livejournal.com
I consider Dancing Aztecs his funniest book; it's a non-series story written and set in 1970s NYC, and it is almost quintessentially a product of that place and time.

Kate's opinion of the Dortmunder series above almost perfectly mimics mine.

Date: 2009-01-02 02:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] metahacker.livejournal.com
Dang.

To balance out the bad news, can you post birth announcements for the new great writers we'll be reading in 40 years?

Date: 2009-01-02 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] almeda.livejournal.com
Well, I'm currently gestating and due in February, but I have no idea what career path she'll choose. Though we're going to do our darndest to turn her into a reader, which seems to be a contributory factor to later writing, at least. :->

Date: 2009-01-02 04:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] uglychicken.livejournal.com
I love Drowned Hopes, but my wife agrees that having a real psycho in a Dortmunder book is just wrong. (He has to be there, though, to make the threat real.) I also loved Jimmy The Kid, where Dortmunder and co kidnap a rich heir, using as blueprint a crime novel called Kid Heist by one Richard Stark. The little exchange of letters at the end is as deliriously funny a piece of meta-fiction as you're likely to read.

Date: 2009-01-02 04:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fsandow.livejournal.com
Very sad, but no-one can claim that he didn't use his time productively. It's appropriate that I learned about his death here, since it was James who turned me on to Dortmunder over a decade ago.

My recommendations for those who'd like to try Dortmunder are _Good Behavior_, _Don't Ask_ and _What's The Worst That Could Happen?_. I enjoyed _Drowned Hopes_, but it's definitely not representative of the series. I also wouldn't start with _The Hot Rock_; it's better to go back to that one later to see how the series developed.

Unfortunately, odds are that the only ones you'll find in mainstream bookstores are the last 2 or 3, which are IMHO weaker than earlier works. Of those, _Watch Your Back!_ is probably the best.

The Robert Redford movie of _The Hot Rock_ isn't bad. I've never seen any of the other movies, but I don't have to have seen the Lawrence Martin version of _What's The Worst That Could Happen?_ to recommend that you avoid it like the plague.

Of his non-Dortmunder work, I'll plug _Trust Me On This_ and _Baby, Would I Lie?_ which are set in the world of tabloid journalism. Dortmunder fans should enjoy these. Also worth a look is his fantasy novel, _Humans_.

Date: 2009-01-02 04:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] james-nicoll.livejournal.com
I'd recommend A Likely Story for anyone connected in any way to publishing.

Date: 2009-01-02 10:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wakboth.livejournal.com
That is sad news indeed.

The Dortmunder novels are some of my favorite books; time to re-read them to honor Westlake's memory.

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