History question

[james_davis_nicoll]

Are there any known pandemics dating from before the Plague of Justinian?

Comments

[jjhunter]

The Antonine Plague jumps immediately to mind.

The Antonine Plague of 165–180 AD—also known as the Plague of Galen, who described it—was an ancient pandemic brought back to the Roman Empire by troops returning from campaigns in the Near East.

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

Dur, should have googled. The Antonine Plague was 165–180 AD. Not sure the Plague of Athens fits what I am looking for.

(surely Asia had pandemics back then?)

[jsburbidge.livejournal.com]

The smallpox epidemic under Marcus Aurelius, depending on your definition of "pan" in "pandemic".

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

Is there a date one can point to and say "Before this, pandemics in the modern sense were unknown"?

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

I suspect that "unrecorded" is probably more accurate.

[drplokta]

4.5 billion years BC seems reasonably safe.

[sean o'hara (from livejournal.com)]

You should pick up Plagues and Peoples by William McNeil.

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

I have it but I have not reread it in 20, 30 years.

[adrian-turtle.livejournal.com]

What do you consider the difference between epidemic and pandemic? Are you just looking for "bigger than city-wide?"

[don-fitch.livejournal.com]

Remarkably extensive trade routes in Europe & Asia have existed since neolithic times, at least, and it's reasonable to suppose that diseases were carried along them. In the U.S./Canada, cobalt-glass beads introduced by the Russians in Alaska reached Maine & Nova Scotia within two years, so diseases would probably spread about as far & rapidly. Documentation ... seems to be lacking, probably (IMHO) because people back then didn't bother about such things... or died of the disease before writing anything down.

[zxhrue.livejournal.com]

whatever it was that the egyptians passed on to the hittites ca. 1320s bce? (google suppiluliuma I).

[connactic.livejournal.com]

sure- I imagine Suppiluliuma I would make better President than Ron Paul.

amarna plagues

[zxhrue.livejournal.com]

see also. significantly affecting two empires makes it a pandemic, right?