Possible terrorist event in Ottawa

[james_davis_nicoll]

Parliament Hill came under attack today after a man with a rifle shot a soldier standing guard at the National War Memorial in downtown Ottawa, before seizing a car and driving to the doors of Parliament Hill's Centre Block nearby.

MPs and other witnesses reported several shots fired inside Parliament, and a gunman has been confirmed dead inside the building, shot by the House of Commons sergeant-at-arms, according to MPs' eyewitness accounts.

Comments

[veritas_poet]

But remember, this has nothing to do with Islam!

[graydon]

Certainly don't assume that it has anything to do with Islam.

Since, so far as we now know, the guy involved in isn't whatsoever. Narrative isn't your friend; facts might be useful, but a story won't be.

[veritas_poet]

LOL! You just keep telling yourself that.

Sources: Ottawa gunman had ties to jihadists

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/23/world/ottawa-shooting/

[graydon]

CNN? Please.

If quartering yourself on a mosque without permission or prior arrangement is "ties to jihadists", Richard I Lionheart had "ties to jihadists".

Michael Zehaf-Bibeau was a (certainly) homeless (probable; he said he was) drug addict with a whole pile of personal issues who said and claimed a lot of things. It's not obvious any of them were factual. (It's not obvious the 2011 court-ordered psych assessment was a jewel of accuracy, either.)

Me, I'd kinda like to know how the homeless drug addict with no income got a rifle. I'm pretty sure the investigators are interested in that, too, so how about not deciding you know what's going on until there's some actual facts in the case? It's much better for the digestion than either CNN or frightening yourself with Islamic bogey-men.

[veritas_poet]

You'd think I would be used to it by now, but I'm still left shocked.

We've got an ideology based in a book that has nothing but hatred on nearly every page. (You'd know that if you'd bothered to read it. But you have not, and you will not.)

That ideology was begun by a warlord child rapist. Again, you'd know that if you'd read their other texts on the life of Mohammad.

We've got people following its commands every day, all over the world. They refer to their book, they refer to their prophet. Sometimes they even quote chapter and verse, WHILE they're doing their slaughter.

And STILL people like you refuse to admit this is Islam.

Contrast this situation with the few incidents there have been in America of people killing abortionists. In that case, you'd be calling them a Christian from the start and not waiting until any facts were known. (Though there are no facts to support such a thing, since Christianity neither commands nor condones such acts.)

To this day I still see ‎Timothy McVeigh referred to as a Christian, when there is ZERO evidence that he professed any such thing, and when there is ZERO evidence that the Bible commands or condones such acts.

But here? Nope. Nothing to do with Islam!

Remarkable. As I said, I ought to be used to it by now. But the willful blindness of people even in the face of blatant reality still shocks me.

[graydon]

I'm an atheist. I don't see people's religion as especially relevant to their behaviour, though it is likely to be relevant to their rationalizations.

Fear, though, fear is definitely relevant to behaviour because fear makes you stupid.

You're ostensibly selling fear, but you're also selling additional stupid; the idea that there's a billion people out there with this one thing in common and it makes them all the same is risible from first principles.

I'm not buying.

[veritas_poet]

"I'm an atheist."

So?

"I don't see people's religion as especially relevant to their behaviour, though it is likely to be relevant to their rationalizations."

What were your thoughts in this regard when you read the Koran?

Oh, wait. You've never read it. Right?

You know NOTHING about Islam. You care NOTHING about the facts regarding Islam.

And yet you will excuse and defend it and rationalize it until the day you die - even if it's at the hands of someone who is giving you chapter and verse on why they are slitting your throat.

It's simply remarkable how people continue and continue and CONTINUE to deny the obvious, while at the same time REFUSING to read the Koran or any of the hadith.

[graydon]

You missed my point -- I don't think people do what their holy book says they should do. I think people sometimes use a convenient holy book as a source of rationalizations for what they want to do anyway. From this viewpoint, saying ISLAM is about like saying BREAKFAST; it's a concept lots of people have.

It doesn't matter what's written in the Koran. (Or the Bible, or the Rig Veda, or various Sutras, or any such thing.) It matters what people want to do. That controls the stories they tell themselves about themselves.

[maruad.livejournal.com]

My condolences to the family of the reservist who was shot and killed.

Fairly early in the coverage, the CBC interviewed a construction worker who suggested there was a second, possibly unarmed, suspect but either that was not the case or the police are sitting on the info.

I haven't heard whether the other wounded individual (leg wound) was injured by the suspect or by friendly fire.

I haven't checked our host's link but there is a Globe and Mail video showing the advance down the corridor that resulted in the death of the suspected shooter.

[keithmm.livejournal.com]

Well, someone learned in a terminal manner that the Parliament's Sergeant-at-Arms isn't an entirely symbolic title.

[maruad.livejournal.com]

Indeed. Apparently the job is a lot more complicated than I had realized. The funny suit and ceremonial mace are probably the least important aspects of it.

[graydon saunders (from livejournal.com)]

The mace is (in at least some historical sense) where the legitimacy of Parliamentary authority -- Parliament as an institution able to make laws, rather than the legitimacy of the individual MPs, derived from winning elections -- arises.

I don't know how one would compare that to being in charge of Parliamentary security, since the things are not the same kind of things at all, but the mace means something.

[maruad.livejournal.com]

I worded my statement poorly. I meant I was surprised to learn the bulk of his work would be involving security issues. I had only considered the position an archaic figurehead type of thing... a soft plum job without any actual work.

[scott-sanford.livejournal.com]

Do you know if they train to use the mace non-ceremonially? Not, we hope, on any elected officials...

[maruad.livejournal.com]

I suspect not since Confederation.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

Not the first time a Canadian SAA's been in that kind of situation, either. (Rene Jalbert's story is kind of amazing.)

[don-fitch.livejournal.com]

Errr..ummm. Ottawa Is in Canada, right? Canadians -- even crazy ones -- aren't supposed to do things like this.  Please rectify the situation. Preferably by way of cats.

[mrsmoseychuck.livejournal.com]

Yes, Ottawa is in Canada. Ottawa is the capital of Canada actually. And nobody is supposed to do things like this anywhere..

[maruad.livejournal.com]

This is the second attack on Canadian troops in Canada in three days. Two soldiers were run down in Quebec on Monday (iirc).

[kaffy_r]

Bloody hell. I know it's completely irrational, but I'm so very, very angry at this. Completely irrational to think "How dare he do this!"

I'm an idiot, I know.

[maruad.livejournal.com]

You are not an idiot and I don't think there is anything irrational in your response.

[kaffy_r]

I'm watching CBC live stream and just learned that they've gone back to lockdown mode - almost nine and a half hours after the first lockdown happened. So there's very possibly someone else out there looking down to do more harm.

[maruad.livejournal.com]

Interesting. Maybe the construction worker, that thought there were two of them, was right after all.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

"How dare he do this?" strikes me as a rational response to random shootings.

[dewline.livejournal.com]

Not completely irrational. Not right now.

[graydon saunders (from livejournal.com)]

Though right now is also a good time to remember we don't know who was involved or what they thought they were doing.

No facts have emerged from the investigation as yet beyond names and corpses; that the events in Ottawa and Quebec are linked hasn't been established.

Trick is to not get stuck in a narrative.

[dewline.livejournal.com]

By accident or by design.

[mrsmoseychuck.livejournal.com]

My prayers go out to Ottawa! Stand strong and free Canadians!

[witchwestphalia.livejournal.com]

My heart goes out to the family of the soldier and to all Canadians tonight.

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

I can't shake the vision of Harper jumping up and down in glee at the thought of a news story which pushes his scandals off the front page.

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

it may take going after the Liberals with claims the Liberals will bring back the long gun registry off the table.

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

Amazingly enough, the guy who killed Cpl Cirillo used a long gun. Who'd a thunk it? Expect to see that inconvenient little factoid downplayed as much as possible.

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

As I recall, Canadians who own guns tend to own proper rifles and shotguns, not unitasker pistols. And there is a Quebec/ROC split on the shotgun versus rifle thing.

[maruad.livejournal.com]

The greater danger is that he will use this to help push through a lot of draconian legislation without any discussion... oh wait, he does that anyway.

smoke and mirrors

[putyourendtowar.livejournal.com]

i agree..

bullshit

[putyourendtowar.livejournal.com]

I smell Black Ops from USA in order to solidify Canada's NATO alliance in Middle East. Obama's comments point directly at this. All is not as it seems, nor does it appear otherwise...

*looks askance*

[dewline.livejournal.com]

Really?

Re: *looks askance*

[putyourendtowar.livejournal.com]

In Canada, this would be equivalent to 911.. guns (ie. violence) are an American vehicle for deployment of public consent (ie. FEAR factor). Even if this weren't directly true, the disaster capitalism would point to the military dysfunction of Canadian troops suffering post traumatic stress syndrome which is also a product of American industrial military banking and media cartels as formed under NATO. -- w-o-r-l-d m-a-f-i-a . . .

Re: *looks askance*

[david wilford (from livejournal.com)]

I'd say it's about as likely as having a Putin stooge come by and troll James' LJ.

Re: *looks askance*

[maruad.livejournal.com]

Less likely I would suspect.

[david wilford (from livejournal.com)]

Thank goodness no one else was killed. The courage of all those who responded to the attack is duly noted, including those who rushed to aid Cpl. Cirillo.

Back in 1983 when I traveled to Washingon, D.C. as part of a trip to Worldcon that year in Baltimore, I and a friend who lived there went to visit the U.S. Capitol and we both just walked in and strolled around the empty Senate chambers. No guards, no nothing for security. It was kinda cool. Then a few months later this happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_United_States_Senate_bombing

and that was that for the U.S. Capitol being casually open to the public. I don't know what additional security measures will be taken on Parliament Hill after this attack, but I'm sure there will be limits placed on easy access.

[graydon saunders (from livejournal.com)]

I'm sure there will be an incident analysis and a report, but so far as I can tell from here, the security system worked. And the Houses of Parliament are already not casually open to the public, and the "I have a pass, I work here" door never stays locked because nobody is willing to put up with that for long.

Plus there's something of a tradition of having Parliament Hill open to pedestrians, as distinct from the Houses of Parliament.

If the narrative goes "pitiful nutcase", even Harper is going to have trouble instituting tougher measures. It's really tough in conservative frames to impugn the competence of the Sergeant-at-Arms who personally shot the attacker. Especially given Harper's own prompt departure to an unknown secure location.

[david wilford (from livejournal.com)]

Hopefully there won't be an overreaction to yesterday's attack. The CBC seems to be responding sensibly, but the Globe and Mail is fairly worked up. Oh well.

As for Harper's quick departure during the incident, GOOD! The last thing that's needed is to complicate things by having a head of state present. You delegate matters instead to those prepared to deal with it, like the Seargant-at-Arms did.

[graydon saunders (from livejournal.com)]

Harper isn't the head of state. (He is himself deeply confused on this point, but really not.) And, as the Prime Minister, *not* in the Parliamentary chain of command; that's the Speaker.

Evacuating the building if instructed? Sure, that's only sensible. Getting on a plane and vanishing into an unknown location? Especially as the cabinet wasn't? It looks more than a bit skittish.

The Mop and Pail are, down at the bottom, hopelessly authoritarian, and thus subject to freakouts. They should calm down in a day or two and look embarrassed.

[maruad.livejournal.com]

Mop and Pail? I had always known them as the Grope and Flail but both work.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

Harper's already demanding various legislative toys that wouldn't have done a blessed thing to stop this attack in the first place (another crack at ubiquitous online surveillance, etc).