Bear in mind I never read The Forest of Hands and Teeth

[james_davis_nicoll]

Zombie books seem to have a set of conventions almost as rigid as return to the Moon stories.

This may be because "the zombie uprising failed when it turned out most the dead couldn't get out of their coffins and the unburied dead were outnumbered 5000 to 1 and generally found in locked rooms" is a funny once short story.

Comments

[jaylake.livejournal.com]

I believe there only needs to be a single patient zero, according to the conventions of the genre. Or is that corpse zero?

"Changing the world, one zombie at a time."

[doc-lemming.livejournal.com]

Well, in the mathematical simulation--yeah, actual mathematicians did a simulation--things turned out dire for humanity unless the early infection was dealt with harshly.

But it's been too long since I read the paper to have a hope of remembering the other assumptions.

[ross-teneyck.livejournal.com]

That would make sense. Real-life pandemics are limited, among other things, by the tendency of the really virulent plagues to "burn out" -- the infected die fast enough that they don't have time to spread the disease effectively. The zombie "infection" can't burn out in that way, because the infected continue to actively spread the disease even after they die.

[rwpikul.livejournal.com]

The problem with that analysis is that one of the assumptions was that the bodies would keep getting back up so long as there were still any zombies left.

It used three pools: Humans, Zombies and Bodies. Any Human or Zombie that was killed entered the Body pool and the Body pool was the source of new Zombies.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get that. Doesn't that logically mean that the zombies are actually unkillable?

Bruce

[amberdine.livejournal.com]

The Forest of Hands and Teeth does not break any important conventions, other than minor tweaking of which category of character survives. I haven't read the sequel.

I realize zombies fit a fairly universal primal fear of dead things, but I still didn't see the appeal beyond the first couple of movies. Bleh.

[doc-lemming.livejournal.com]

Is there a list of zombie conventions anywhere? (Not conventions of humans pretending to be zombies, of course.)

I mean, I enjoy the occasional zombie movie or novel, so long as it's also about something else. I think Romero's original take was correct: the zombies are just a way to get people bottled up so they don't just leave, and then fireworks happen.

[jamoche]

TVTropes is a good place to start; usual TVTropes warnings apply.

[amberdine.livejournal.com]

Not really a list of conventions, but it includes some:

7 Scientific Reasons a Zombie Outbreak Would Fail Quickly (from Cracked.com, so it's typically crass). Doesn't even mention the escape-from-coffins issue James brought up!

[(Anonymous)]

Does sort of fail to really grasp the issue that zombie bites are indeed how they reproduce: it's really not like having to attack a lion every time you want to have a sandwich or sex, since you merely need to live long enough to inflict one bite to achieve a stable zombie population. A zombie craves human flesh, but it doesn't need to eat. The zombie craving for human flesh is essentially the function equivalent of a human sex drive: and while humans and other animals need pregnancy, child care, etc., all sort of investments of time and resources to reproduce, a zombie really only needs to bite somebody _once_.

Once that has occured, the score is automatically tied 1-1, humans to zombies: for even if the zombie is immediately killed, the person bitten must be killed or they will be become a zombie. So, for human losses to be less than zombie losses, we need bites per zombie <1, and if we're in the annoying everyone who dies by _natural causes_ becomes a zombie, there's always going to be fresh outbreaks... (how much _larger_ than 1 the bites/per zombie factor must be to become a runaway outbreak depends on various factors, including the willingness of the local population to deal with their sick and elderly with Inuit stereotype severity).

Now, the decomposition thing is more of a problem, and if it's quick enough, it will be easier to keep bites/zombie fairly low...

Bruce

[brett-dunbar.livejournal.com]

The UK has a cremation rate of about 75% so about three quarters of the dead definitely aren't going to be rising even of those buried only fairly recent corpses can rise due to decomposition. Obviously once
you know what is happening then quick cremation becomes compulsory.

I never thought that the situation in Night of the Living Dead was even remotely compatible with Dawn of the Dead or Day of the Dead. The group in night of the living dead had the extremely bad luck to be isolated in a rather flimsy building right next to several cemeteries, so were under exceptionally heavy attack with exceptionally poor defences. Nearly everyone else would be in a far better situation to survive the initial outbreak and the zombies themselves were slow mindless not that numerous (limited to fresh non-cremated corpses) and effectively defenceless against any kind of organised attack. The existing living dead would be eliminated in a few days and cremation would become compulsory. For Dawn of the Dead and Day of the Dead to work most of humanity would have had to die first, maybe due to a plague, only later rising as zombies and attacking the tiny immune minority after organised society had collapsed due to a plague.

[halfassured.livejournal.com]

Zombies themselves aren't interesting to me, but I think you can get some interesting human stories out of treating them like a plague or natural disaster.

[icecreamempress.livejournal.com]

Play Dead is the best zombie book I have read in a long time. Also the best high-school (US) football book since Friday Night Lights.

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

I seem to recall a comedy from 20 years ago where some teen who was promised a date with his crush died and then through sheer force of will came back for the date. At first everything seems ok and then the less socially acceptable parts of being a zombie start to become obvious.

I also STR that the fact that similar things had happened in the past was lampshaded early on, to foreshadow the eventual resolution,.

[kithrup.livejournal.com]

My Boyfriend's Back. That and My Best Friend is a Vampire are much better than they had any right being. (Not to say that they're good, but I can rewatch them periodically and laugh.)

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

Not quite zombie, but xkcd has a similar short: http://xkcd.com/734/

[kithrup.livejournal.com]

I'm amazed nobody's actually done that as movie plot yet.

[http://users.livejournal.com/krin_o_o_/]

And it is found out in Act III, that the toxin is actually cursed because it was powdered in a morter and pestle made from a stolen Voodun artifact, so it was a magic based zombie and not a disease based zombie, and the initial spread is by whomever kills the zombie becomes one.

[kithrup.livejournal.com]

Nah. It's all scientific zombies these days.

I think the last magic zombie show I saw was an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. ("Oh, look at my mask, isn't it pretty? It raises the dead!")

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

Ned from Pushing Daisies can make the dead rise with a touch and it seems to be magic. Happily the power comes with some potentially tragic limitations ("Bitch! I was in proximity."), turning the subjects into mindless cannibals isn't one of them.

[kithrup.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call them zombies, though. Although... based on his dog, the revived don't seem to age, so I can't be firm on it. And after some thought... Hm, and I guess some of the revived had no business being alive, let alone talking (e.g., those with significant portions of their bodies missing). Guess they are zombies.

Now you've gone and made me all sad 'cause I miss that show.

[(Anonymous)]

Although there are some more "natural" types, the classic Romero type still rules, and a "scientific" rationale for a critter which cannot be killed save through a headshot, never tires, is constantly in a state of decomposition but never falls apart... "a wizard/Great Old One did it" is frankly more logical.

Bruce

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

Come to think of it, Pushing Daisies features several roving undead who never demonstrate any of the less pleasant proclivities of the traditional walking dead....

[doc-lemming.livejournal.com]

One of the zombie things I read--it may have been when I was involved in All Flesh Must Be Eaten fandom--used the conceit that zombies had superstrength for the first little period. That enabled them to get out the coffin, containment box, dirt and so forth.

Of course, hard to deal with if you come upon a zombie in the first ten or twenty minutes...

[http://users.livejournal.com/krin_o_o_/]

that sounds far too scientific...

Zombies should make death defying leaps from their smoking eldritchly lit graves in showers of dirt and sod, accompanied by blinding flashes of lightning and ear shattering peals of thunder. And there should be howling wind and baying hounds.

[doc-lemming.livejournal.com]

Depends on the story.

I do like zombies--they're (currently) what vampires were at some unspecified time in the past, blue-collar mindless killing monsters. On the other hand, unless you have something interesting to say, I'm not going to read your book just because it has zombies in it. Unless, of course, you're a close personal friend or sent me a copy for review.

Only maintaining my distance from zombies has managed to keep me from being bored by them. (Though I saw a heck of a lot of bad zombie movies over the years. Anyone for Chopper Chicks in Zombie Town?)

[avitzur.livejournal.com]

I find it amusing that the zombie film genre has become popular enough to support an entire sub-genre of Zombie Romantic Comedies, ZomRomComs. Wasting Away (2007) was a treat showing everything from the Zombie's POV after the teens are accidentally exposed. Why is everyone else moving so fast? Why do they keep trying to kill us?

[daev.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I saw a trailer for that movie a couple of years ago and thought "oh, I'd like to see that when it comes out in the theater." Then it never did, and I couldn't remember the name.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

Not that it's a book, and not that I've watched a great many zombie movies, either, but it seems to me that Fido is not your typical zombie story. It's quite charming, in that heart-warming Boy And His Zombie way. It also gets props for having Billy Connolly in it, and Carrie Anne Moss in some of the most fabulous '50s Mom dresses ever.

obligatory Canadian content

[daev.livejournal.com]

Do you remember the Kids In The Hall sketch parodying every zombie movie ever? The woman running away stops to take off her high heels -- about six times -- and the zombies are a dead school crossing guard and a dead short-order cook.

[austin-dern.livejournal.com]

> conventions almost as rigid as return to the Moon stories.

I am curious what the conventions are, as I seem to have dodged Return To The Moon stories shortly after learning better about reading Stephen Baxter, who wrote at least one of them.