Things I did not know

[james_davis_nicoll]

Apparently in their current version, the skin of Drow who convert to good becomes lighter coloured while the "blackness of the drow's skin has become a permanent sign of their depravity". The Curse of the Lamanites angle seems to have been introduced by self-confessed Canadian author Lisa Smedman in The Lady Penitent.

Nicked from arielstarshadow

Comments

[carloshasanax.livejournal.com]

People of science fiction, you can rejoin modern society without shame, without embarrassment.

If any of you are still white, we can cure you.

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

This is RPGs, not SF. SF has persistant issues but roleplaying has them turned up to 11. I mean, there are rpg companies selling miniatures of semi-naked women being tortured.

I remember being amazed when my copy of Ex Machina and the woman on the cover turned out to have been drawn by someone who had actually seen breasts.

[kynn.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that the Drizzt books are NYT bestsellers.

[beckyh2112.livejournal.com]

I don't think the Drizzt books ever involved this, though. (I can't say for certain, but one of the big points with the Drizzt books [besides lots of violence] has been that Drizzt still looks like every other drow out there and drow are to be hated and feared and woe is Drizzt.)(There is, of course, still the skeeviness of "black elves = EVIL", but it's slightly less skeevy than "black evil elves who become good become lighter-skinned".)

[doc-lemming.livejournal.com]

Not knowing what Ex Machina is (though a quick Google search suggests it's the Tri-Stat Cyberpunk book), what attribute of the cover makes you say that?

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

The woman's breasts on the cover actually look like women's breasts. They're even subject to deformation due to the combination of their mechanical properties and the effects of gravity.

[carloshasanax.livejournal.com]

True. Ballantine only reprinted its Gor books until the, um, 1990s, and those are supposedly consensual. And that series set in a differently Judeo-Christian BDSM France only has women being tortured non-consensually by bad people, if memory serves. I don't think there's anything positively nonconsensual on the B&N SF shelves today. Except for all the vampire mind-control stuff. And Jack Chalker. Wait, can I change my answer?

Comparing cover art atrocities between role-playing games and science fiction novels seems counterproductive.

Wait, can I change my answer?

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

Sure. Your revised answer should take into account that the Gor books moved to DAW in the early 1970s. It was dropped by DAW in the late 1980s. Also, Jack Chalker has been dead for nearly half a decade now. I believe the current poster child for unfortunate gender relations is Oh John Ringo No (I'm not sure when he changed his name).

Re: Wait, can I change my answer?

[doc-lemming.livejournal.com]

I tried to read a John Ringo novel once--a free one at the Baen Library. By "tried" I mean I read the prologue and maybe a page of chapter one (hard to tell in HTML). But apparently it gets worse later on.

Ah. Ghost it was. http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/11-UntotheBreachCD/UntotheBreachCD/Ghost/index.htm Being prepared, I could probably read it now, but life is short.

Re: Wait, can I change my answer?

[argonel.livejournal.com]

I would recommend any other book of his. including the later books in that series before I would recommend ghost to anyone who isn't already a fan.

In the context of this discussion I don't know that I would describe any of them as good, but the other books are definately less bad.

Re: Wait, can I change my answer?

[seawasp]

"Ghost" was a literal "never meant to be published" book that John wrote to get it out of his head. He made the mistake of mentioning it to Jim. Who then insisted on offering money for it and publishing it.

It has since become John's most successful book/series.

This is real irony for you.

Re: Wait, can I change my answer?

[chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com]

The first time I ever asked about that book at a con, he told me flat out not to read it, that it would melt my brain. The next time, he said to go ahead. In retrospect, I think that's when he decided I was expendable... ;-)

Re: Wait, can I change my answer?

[argonel.livejournal.com]

I recall hearing something about the Gor novels being republished recently by Black Horse. However I have no current information weather they actually made it to print or not.

Re: Wait, can I change my answer?

[carloshasanax.livejournal.com]

2005? Time flies.

I know I saw those things on the shelf, both DAW and whatever Ballantine was by then, into the early 1990s. Sending the last shoebox of Gor to Ingram, I guess; or perhaps they didn't sell well in Wisconsin.

I always took "John Ringo" for a pseudonym, after the minor gunfighter who died badly. I gather he can laugh at himself a bit, unlike Cartman, who seems so brittle his finger might fall off if he accidentally touched a Democrat. I do like the new prae- and postnomen. Perhaps Baen could use it, like Iain Banks used his bad reviews for his early mainstream novel.

Re: Wait, can I change my answer?

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

Ballantine is still Ballantine but Del Rey is their SF imprint. I believe Gor was long gone over to DAW by the time the Del Rey imprint was founded, however.

Re: Wait, can I change my answer?

[carloshasanax.livejournal.com]

Ah. I'm not actually losing my brain. Here's an ISFDB record for one from 1991, Del Rey/Ballantine. Older cover though.

Looks like they switched to DAW with volume 7.

[fridgepunk.livejournal.com]

I've asked this else where, but how many of the seemingly self-replicating multitude of awards for SF/F are named for Joseph Campbell, a man who was, despite his many other qualities, something of a white supremicist with very... interesting views on the american civil war?

[avram]

None?

John Campbell, on the other hand...

(Yeah, I get 'em mixed up sometimes too.)

[fridgepunk.livejournal.com]

The funny thing is that I always go "Bruce, no, Jo?something, joseph? yeah that sounds right... Joseph Campbell."

And wiki'ing now I see that Joseph Campbell is the campbellian hero guy! Which I'd ironically been blaming on John Campbell...

[carloshasanax.livejournal.com]

I know you meant John. There has been controversy around Joseph; but John was a suppurating racial hemorrhoid of a man, a braying jackass at the edge of acceptable public Northern opinion even for the 1940s. (He finished his degree at Duke, which is also where he encountered the idea that psi powers were scientific. He almost certainly didn't know the new campus was designed by a black man.)

As far as I know, there are just the two: the John W. Campbell Memorial Award for Best Science Fiction Novel, which only has one racist on the jury at present, and the John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer.

[wdstarr.livejournal.com]

Ballantine only reprinted its Gor books until the, um, 1990s, and those are supposedly consensual.

?????

Possibly never has the "FSVO" marker been more needed.

[carloshasanax.livejournal.com]

It's not my reading, but it seems to be a contentious topic among people who have read Norman much more avidly than I have. Why not err on the side of generosity? (I usually regret this later.)

[chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com]

I guess it could be argued that a rape victim who's traumatized to the point of Stockholm Syndrome _could_ be said to "consent retroactively". :-/

[carloshasanax.livejournal.com]

I'll be setting up a PayPal link for you folks to buy "White No More" shortly. Comes in nano-gel body scrub as well as refreshing bath spritz form!

(Warning: White No More is not to be taken internally. Several applications may be necessary. White No More will not increase penis length. Do not taunt White No More. Those people have enough problems.)