(no subject)

[james_davis_nicoll]

If someone was trying to entice their new girlfriend to read SFF, what horrifyingly dated works whose flaws you don't notice because you grew up with them would you recommend?

Comments

[naomikritzer]

I'll note that as a teenage girl (in the 1980s, so Anne McCaffery was still AMAZING, FTR) I had a boyfriend who attempted to introduce me to Heinlein by lending me his absolute favorite Heinlein book, "To Sail Beyond the Sunset."

The upside of this: it's a fantastic anecdote to tell to aging Heinlein fans at SF cons because they are always so horrified!

[melita66]

I'm sorry to say that in the 80s when I read McCaffrey, a BFF had to point out the problematic bits which I hadn't noticed in Dragonflight and Dragonquest. I still like the books overall, but I grit my teeth through those scenes, and haven't reread them in years and years.

[(Anonymous)]

Likewise the relationship between Jaxom and Corana in The White Dragon.

That said, the other month I reread Dragonsong and the only yuck was that I was even more pissed than ever before about the crap people gave Menolly and how nobody stood up for her.

[magedragonfire]

The Harper Hall trilogy has a much more narrow focus. The books' overall focus on younger characters means that, for the most part, the skeevy attitudes about sex and sexuality that McCaffrey bestowed on the greater setting don't get much time to come into play (and thank goodness for that).

(IIRC the weird not-quite-relationship stuff between Menolly and Robinton is only addressed in the main series? But it's been a long time since my last re-read.)

[melannen]

Yeah Harper Hall is still mostly fine as long as you don't spoil people for the Menolly/Robinton that shows up later and reflects ick back on their every interaction.

There are a lot more good YA fantasies now though, and most of them don't link to adult series that are... like that.

[roseembolism]

"Main series"? You mean McCaffery did other stuff in setting of the Harper Hall duology? Couldn't be, I'm sure I would have remembered if that was the case....

[conuly]

I've never even heard of that Heinlein.

[dsrtao]

It's the final pre-mortem Heinlein. Everything you thought was weird and iffy about any of his previous works is in there, except racism. I think there's no racism, anyway. Everything else, though.

[conuly]

At least there's no racism.

I once bumped into somebody who held the apparently earnest view that Farnham's Freehold proves that Heinlein wasn't a big old racisty racist.

I blocked him immediately.

[ba_munronoe]

I suppose you could argue it indicates _Heinlein_ didn't think he was a racist. Some people's lack of self-awareness is, shall we say, astounding. :)

[(Anonymous)]

I presume that is based on the hypothesis that Farnham's Freehold is a failed attempt at an anti-racist book. (Overlooking the subsidiary hypothesis that the failure was due to the author's unexamined racism.)

[agharta75]

I used to think that, but Heinlein's letters made me realize he meant what he said - if you stop oppressing them, they'll oppress you, and it will be worse because they'll eat you.

[melannen]

Also, the weird stuff is all that's in it. He didn't bother with a plot or anything for that one, just front loaded the id.