Date: 2012-08-01 12:18 pm (UTC)
wordweaverlynn: the Golden Gate Bridge in fog; instead of cables, the uprights are book spines (FOGcon)
From: [personal profile] wordweaverlynn
Wiscon!

And the small, relatively new San Francisco Bay Area FOGcon. We hope.

Run by people of all genders (predominantly women) ranging in age from 30s to 60s -- we're trying to get some younger people in, too. We're also trying for more diversity on the concom. We make real efforts for diversity in Honored Guests, too, and on panels. Strong anti-harassment policy. Very strong policy in favor of social justice, feminism, and QUILTBAG rights. Focused on books, and mostly run by people who write.

Date: 2012-08-01 07:49 pm (UTC)
wild_irises: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wild_irises
True enough. But I don't think it's fair to lay that guilt at the feet of the convention-runners, who live where we live.

Date: 2012-08-01 05:02 pm (UTC)
talia_et_alia: Photo of my short blue hair. (Default)
From: [personal profile] talia_et_alia
Is this question prompted (in part or in whole) by the concrete suggestions for change discussed, for example, in this thread? Your LJ commenters seem to be unaware that there are other areas of concern besides the harassment policy.

Date: 2012-08-01 09:38 pm (UTC)
talia_et_alia: Photo of my short blue hair. (Default)
From: [personal profile] talia_et_alia
Well! Apparently I'm so perceptive, I can read between the lines of a one-line post. Doubtless due to the flawless command of social cues and nonverbal communication that I share with all women.

(I'm not a con-goer, so I don't have anything constructive to add. Although, as someone who reads a lot and lived in Boston (Cambridge) without a car for years, I always discounted Readercon for its inaccessible location first, and its snobbish bullshit second.)

Date: 2012-08-01 07:49 pm (UTC)
wild_irises: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wild_irises
I have never been to a Readercon, but my quick-and-dirty answer is "like Readercon," but with clear and sensible policies which they enforce consistently.

Date: 2012-08-06 01:22 am (UTC)
sunflowerp: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sunflowerp
Probably not like Your Father's Readercon.

(Caveat: I'm far, far away, have never been, and only learned of that faux pas while following the current debacle.)

Sunflower

Date: 2012-08-01 04:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] agharta75.livejournal.com
It wouldn't be your father's Readercon.

Date: 2012-08-01 04:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] james-nicoll.livejournal.com
My father didn't read SF and anyway has been dead for 34 years so that's probably a good thing.

Date: 2012-08-01 03:28 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"The main problem with Readercon is an insufficiency of braaaains."

Bruce

Date: 2012-08-01 04:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mindstalk.livejournal.com
The question implies Readercon was done wrong. I thought it was great. How harassers are treated seems pretty orthogonal to all the panels and stuff.

I mean, "it looks exactly the same, minus one jerk" seems a reasonable answer but presumably not what you're looking for.

Date: 2012-08-01 05:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] commodorified.livejournal.com
How harassers are treated seems pretty orthogonal to all the panels and stuff.

Ever tried to pay attention to, never mind actually be on, a panel while watching over your shoulder for your harasser to turn up again?

It's only orthoganal if you're not the target, or in the target demographic. If you are it is, from moment to moment, somewhere on the continuum from noticeable undertow to central to all-encompassing.

I will be literal and say that it would look like a science fiction convention, only with all rather than some of the people looking and acting the way people look and act when we know it is safe for us to relax.

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Date: 2012-08-01 11:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stevendj.livejournal.com
Much like Wiscon.

Date: 2012-08-01 03:10 pm (UTC)
jazzfish: "Do you know the women's movement has no sense of humor?" "No, but hum a few bars and I'll fake it!" (the radical notion that women are people)
From: [personal profile] jazzfish
This was the thought that came to my mind as well. (Wiscon, with kaffeeklatschen.)

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Date: 2012-08-01 11:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jhetley.livejournal.com
The rest is silence . . .

Date: 2012-08-01 01:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] viktor-haag.livejournal.com
If the population of attendance at Readercon is anything like what I assume it to be (several thousand people), it should be run by paid professionals, or at the very least volunteers with enough experience to ease the mind of local civic governance, and should be expected to hold to a high standard for the safety of the participants.

What astounds me about this whole Readercon fiasco (and similar con-nish tales related in the light of these events) is that nowhere do I find expectation or comments that (a) criminal investigations or charges get levied against people who commit crimes in the context of these kinds of events, or (b) that civil or criminal actions aren't being brought against not only the con organisations themselves, but also the hotels and civic governments that host these events.

If someone misbehaves at a large sporting event (like for example the chucklehead(s) at the recent ballgame I attended who tossed a not-yet-empty plastic beer cup over the fifth-deck railing), they're firmly and immediately ejected, and handed over to the local security staff and then the police.

It frankly boggles my mind that people who systematically harass others at conventions, or who wander any inch of themselves outside the clearly set out safety policies put in place, aren't firmly and immediately ejected from the premises, and handed over to the local security staff and then the police.

By not doing so, I would think that the Readercon organization is clearly opening themselves up to legal action. I would expect the venue and/or local civic government to think seriously about giving Readercon another license to hold their event in the near future. Or first insist they take steps to indemnify themselves further against risk (such as insisting the convention hold more, and prove holding, of private insurance against such risk).
Edited Date: 2012-08-01 01:55 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-08-01 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oldcharliebrown.livejournal.com
It's more like five hundred, I believe, which means there isn't much money to go anywhere. I know this because for Capclave, where we have three hundred paid members, at best, it's barely squeaks past break-even. Both are highly volunteer-driven and do their best within reason.

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Date: 2012-08-01 07:54 pm (UTC)
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)
From: [personal profile] redbird
I would like to live in a world where the standard police response to a complaint that a man had grabbed a woman against her will was to arrest the man. But we don't.

Yes, sometimes it boggles my mind that men who systematically harass women aren't arrested. But that's the same part of my mind that can still sometimes be boggled by continued structural racism or by young-earth creationists. "How can you think that?" doesn't change the fact that a lot of people do think that, for certain values of "that," one of them being that sexual harassment is trivial.

There are sports teams that strongly want to avoid fighting in the stands, and instruct their security staff accordingly. Hence the thrown beer incident you describe. There are others that will simply tell people "don't sit in X part of the stadium if you have a child with you," or that don't try to prevent violence in the stands, only reporting of that violence.

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From: [identity profile] viktor-haag.livejournal.com - Date: 2012-08-01 09:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2012-08-01 04:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icecreamempress.livejournal.com
Much less "ownership" by founding and longtime Board members.

Which might itself have improved the harassment response.

Date: 2012-08-02 07:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jamiam.livejournal.com
Interesting.

Boards confuse me. I kind of understand concoms now that I've done a little work on one, and there's usually overlap with the Board... but I still don't really understand how someone ends up on the Board. Or what the Board's purpose for existence is during an average non-fail year.

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Date: 2012-08-01 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jeffreyab.livejournal.com
What about the question "What would a harasment policy done right look like?"

Date: 2012-08-01 10:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] viktor-haag.livejournal.com
"Any action by any con attendee deemed by the con's safety officers to be harmful or injurious to any other con attendee or guest of the venue will result in immediate expulsion from the premises and revocation of welcome attendance, and could result in criminal prosecution and/or banning from any future event hosted by this con organization or any related con organization. Harmful or injurious action include behaviour like physical, verbal, or emotional abuse or harassment, and may include other similar sorts of actions at the discretion of the con's safety officers and organizers."

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Date: 2012-08-02 07:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jamiam.livejournal.com
Given Rachel Dillon's story, and N.K. Jemisin's similar experience described in the comments, it's likely the harassment decision was a symptom of a deeper cultural tendency.

In any case, it's not just the harassment policy and its enforcement that needs addressing.

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From: [identity profile] agent-mimi.livejournal.com - Date: 2012-08-02 09:50 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2013-09-25 07:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nativemedia.livejournal.com
interesting

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