james_davis_nicoll: (Default)
[personal profile] james_davis_nicoll
On the Moon, I mean.

The US's current plan is emplace a crewed habitat at the lunar south pole [1]. The habitat will need power. Solar power on the Moon has the drawback that the Moon has long nights, two weeks long. The poles offer the option of building a distributed system where at least some of the arrays are in daylight, but this probably involves more infrastructure than an early effort may be able to afford and will involve low sun angles. Nuclear is an obvious solution but atoms scare Americans (Yes, we could work to re-educate the Americans on this but this would undermine sales of Canadian oil to the US and so is clearly counter-productive).

At the same time, the base is going to cost a bundle. Dumping some of the costs on foreign partners may be necessary (The choice may be between a multinational base or no base at all, given that the US is unlikely to deviate from their historical spending levels on space [2]).

Now, which space-faring nations are more comfortable with nuclear power than the US? Let's define "more comfortable" as being willing to get twice as much of their power from atomic energy than the US.

These are the nations which as of last year got 40% of their electricity from atomic reactors:


nation             Fraction of electricity 
                 generated by nuclear power

Belgium                  55%
Bulgaria                 42%
France                   78%     
Lithuania                72%
Slovak Republic          55%
Sweden                   52%
Switzerland              40%
Ukraine                  51%



The only nation on that list with the ability to build launchers is France.

If we eliminate the former Warsaw Pact nations (on the basis that their atomic technology tends to be "nightmarishly poorly designed Soviet legacies"), the list is



nation             Fraction of electricity 
                 generated by nuclear power

Belgium                  55%
France                   78%     
Sweden                   52%
Switzerland              40%



All which are ESA members [Hastily edited because for some reason I thought the Swiss had stayed out of the ESA]. Of those four nations, three have substantial numbers of Francophones.

The way I see it, there's a good chance that the dials on a lunar reactor will have French words on them.

1: 14+ years from now, or as far from us as the Cold War. Continuity of funding is an interesting issue.

2: Which are atypically high for Earth.

Re: In 1979

Date: 2006-12-06 06:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aisb23.livejournal.com
But there's a difference, while Americans obviously did not like or trust the Soviet communist government, there was no cultural fear of the Russians as a nation. Once communism collapsed why not cooperate in space.

France on the other hand is an erstwhile ally of the US of 200 years standing but culturally the French are still intensely disliked by the average American. And there are more than a few politicians who would be willing to get voter milieage out of NASA using French reactors.

Re: In 1979

Date: 2006-12-06 06:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] james-nicoll.livejournal.com
The ESA is a participant in Alpha.

Re: In 1979

Date: 2006-12-06 06:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aisb23.livejournal.com
True, but Alpha is after all the International Space Station. Whereas the proposed moonbase is, at this time, supposed to be strictly a US show.

Re: In 1979

Date: 2006-12-06 06:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] james-nicoll.livejournal.com
Alpha is the International Space Station because the choices for the US were that or no US space station presence at all and a lot of pan-handling aerospace engineers.

Anyone remember Fred, the Incredible Shrinking Space Station?

Re: In 1979

Date: 2006-12-06 06:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aisb23.livejournal.com
You're right. And I suspect, for the same reasons (plus the cost), that the moonbase will eventually also become the international moonbase.

But until that happens I still say you can forget about any of the major componenets, like power supply, being bought from France.

Re: In 1979

Date: 2006-12-06 08:15 pm (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Default)
From: [personal profile] matgb
I heard an interview on the Beeb on the drive home yesterday in which a NASA spokesman said it would be international and over ten countries were already interested/signed up.

Which would be good. Odds of the UK having the guts to commit serious money to it negligible, but there y'go.

Re: In 1979

Date: 2006-12-06 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mindstalk.livejournal.com
Is Francophobia really deep in American culture, or is it a reaction to the French openly considering Bush dumb, then opposing the invasion of Iraq? I don't recall Francophobia during the Clinton years. I'm not the most plugged into mainstream American culture, so I don't know; I'm just cautioning against taking Bush-era crowd-stirring more seriously than it deserves.

Re: In 1979

Date: 2006-12-06 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aisb23.livejournal.com
Granted that under the Bush Administration many politicians of both parties have found it useful to play to American francophobia, it has always existed under the surface of American culture.

After all the phrase "cheese eating surrender monkeys" was coined in a 1995 episode of the Simpsons, during the height of the Clinton Administration and almost immediately found a place in the American lexicon of insults.

Re: In 1979

Date: 2006-12-06 08:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rimrunner.livejournal.com
I wonder why that is? I confess I've never noticed it, but I went to a French immersion school (in the U.S.), I still speak the language pretty well, and I recall being taught a lot about the history and culture.

Never been there, though. Tentative plans are afoot for a trip this coming March.

Re: In 1979

Date: 2006-12-06 08:19 pm (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Bitchcakes)
From: [personal profile] matgb
Is Francophobia really deep in American culture

One thing I learnt travelling Europe that really surprised me; Francophobia is common everywhere. I always thought it was just us Brits, which is a traditional rivalry anyway, but it's common across the board.

Re: In 1979

Date: 2006-12-07 08:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bricklovinfreak.livejournal.com
On the other hand, if my culture had invented as many culinary delicacies (baked brie, anyone?), I might be tempted to act as if it were the pinnacle of western civilization too.

Re: In 1979

Date: 2006-12-06 08:45 pm (UTC)
seawasp: (Default)
From: [personal profile] seawasp
It's not "Francophobia" it's... um... "Francomockia".

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