Welcome to the Harlan Ellison Memorial Personal Boundaries Club

[james_davis_nicoll]

Sad male fan capitalizes on way to be even more creepy to female fans.

As seen on a wide variety of LJ accounts. I have to say there's a clear consensus on the idea of treating women's bodies as public commons and it's not heading in the direction of commutarian touching. Who could have predicted that outcome?

Comments

[daedala.livejournal.com]

See, you're specifically rejecting the one thing most women objecting to this think is ok -- segregation.

It's called a "hostile environment." There is no way to make this not hostile to people who prefer that the integrity of their personal boundaries remain unquestioned.

[childe.livejournal.com]

Is it possible to be in an environment, with other human beings, where the integrity of my personal boundaries remains unquestioned? If so, I have not experienced it in my life, as I have some fairly intense personal space issues.

[winterknight.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. I have significant personal space issues myself for psychological and physiological reasons, and I have definitely been in situations where my personal boundaries are completely respected. I would not be so insistent upon it if I did not know it was possible. The more insistent on it I am, and it isn't easy because people can be really negative about it, the more sure I am that it can be achieved. Moreover, the more it is achieved, the less militant and vigilant everyone has to be about it in return, oddly enough.

[childe.livejournal.com]

Hrm. Can you be confident that your personal boundaries remain unquestioned when there are strangers involved? How do you know someone in the room isn't thinking about you in intimate ways? How can you be sure that strangers will respect your personal space boundaries while walking down the street?

[winterknight.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure of any of that. I accept that leaving the house and the circle of immediate friends and family may result in the transgression of my boundaries. As a girl/woman, this was a default acceptance every time I allowed myself to come in contact with others, and still is. Safe space (nothing's truly SAFE, but safety is the right to say 'you screwed up there' without fear of retribution), confirmation and respect, and self-affirmation make me stronger about encountering others.

I have been told by various people more than once that they are thinking of me in intimate ways, usually with great glee and malice. There's nothing more charming than being barely pubescent and being greeted with, "I'm fucking you in my head, little girl." If someone I'm friends with has let it slip or even confessed it to me, I've always said something along the lines of, "It makes me uncomfortable to know that, but I can't control how you think of me; know that this is something that will not translate to the physical realm." I believe that fantasy is very natural and is not an imposition on me personally unless I am made aware of it or the person doesn't respect that the 'me' in their head is not ME.

[childe.livejournal.com]

As a girl/woman, this was a default acceptance every time I allowed myself to come in contact with others, and still is.

I would argue that this is not gender-specific, and use myself as an example. While I'm not worried about people thinking sexually about me (Really? I would have figured that guy over there would be more attractive...) people invade my personal space in public arenas constantly. I would think that anyone who is concerned (overly or not) about their personal space runs into this, regardless of gender, orientation, or identification.

[ambitious-wench.livejournal.com]

I'm curious: Just what do you mean about having your personal space invaded constantly? Are we talking about being crowed on a bus? Are we talking being rubbed against in a line? Are we talking someone standing too close to you at the bus stop? Are we talking being grabbed on the ass as you walk by? What?

I have personal space issues, too; I don't like it when I'm swatted on the ass by a coworker as I walk by his cubicle.

[ms-daisy-cutter.livejournal.com]

I'm going to guess that you didn't mean it this way, but your comment reeks of, "But men are oppressed tooooo!!"

Like ambitious_wench said, the invasions of your personal space as a man are less likely to take the form of slapping, pinching, groping, or comments from total strangers that they'd like to fuck you. Ergo, they don't take the form of someone communicating to you that you exist solely for their pleasure and amusement — and, oftentimes, your distress adds to said pleasure and amusement, because they're "getting one over on you."

Men seem not to grasp that this shit happens to us all the time.

[cbpotts.livejournal.com]

Or that there's always violence on the table: you go along, or you're just setting up a reason to be punished for it later.

I've yet to meet the man who thinks blowing off a girl who's interested in him carries with it a very real risk of physical harm. I've yet to meet the woman over the age of 15 who doesn't know that she's dancing with danger every time she says no.

[ms-daisy-cutter.livejournal.com]

That too, and thanks for reminding me. Especially since bringing up the spectre of male violence might be helpful the next time I have to reply to this choad (http://misia.livejournal.com/1055120.html?thread=16731024#t16731024) who's whining about how unfaaaaiiiiirrrr it is that bitches can, you know, choose to date the "hot mailroom guy" over the "ugly cubical [sic] guy."