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Date: 2017-04-09 02:10 pm (UTC)The Ringworld is just below 70 OPH in the lower right, isn't it?
Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-09 02:34 pm (UTC)"The story itself was a very clear, simple little story - very delicately and carefully told. It was about homosexuality on Mars. Why Mars I don't know, except that wherever you are as a reader, you're not there ... Anyway, the story was perfectly unsensational and even decent to the point of reticence. There wasn't even any sex in it. Instead ... one man killed another. It was really an all-right story, ... not in the least shocking... Then I came to the picture. It was a picture of the murderer - this guy who had killed the man who had made advances to him. Out of horror and disgust, you see. And the story make the point that such exaggerated horror was a product of unconscious, latent homosexuality. Well apparently the artist had taken alarm even at latent unconscious homosexuality and had decided that by God, he was going to show you that this character was no effeminate sissy - he was a _man_ - so what he did was put layer on layer of muscles on this character, and give him beetling eyebrows ... He would have made an adult male gorilla look fragile. ... I was reading my magazine ... and as I reached this picture, I think I made some sort of extraordinary noise .... which attracted the attention of a student ... 'Can I see?' 'Oh that's an _alien_' "
Re: Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-09 11:24 pm (UTC)Re: Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-10 01:41 am (UTC)Idunno.
I see "beetling eyebrows", but certainly not "layer on layer of muscle". OTOH, my standards may have been warped by the existence of Rob Liefeld.
Re: Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-10 02:13 am (UTC)Re: Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-10 05:44 am (UTC)Re: Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-10 02:35 am (UTC)Re: Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-10 05:46 am (UTC)Re: Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-10 06:41 am (UTC)Re: Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-13 05:15 pm (UTC)Re: Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-10 12:14 am (UTC)Re: Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-10 01:38 am (UTC)Re: Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-10 07:46 am (UTC)(OTOH, some people also took that "sexuality is a matter of choice" to mean "of course that 10 year old chooses to have sex with my 40 year old self", so I suppose the takeaway is mostly "there are horrible people in every generation". :( )
Re: Speaking of "How the Heroes Die"
Date: 2017-04-10 08:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-04-09 04:50 pm (UTC)2.) Is it just that Niven had a particular run of bad luck re "Time Marches On" in his early career, or was he more open about it than most writers working in hard SF at the time?
3.) The solution to "Setting that has run too long, and is now unworkable" is usually either "make a new setting" or "use time travel/AU shenanigans to reboot the setting". Niven seems to be either unwilling or unable to do this.
re point #2
Date: 2017-04-09 05:19 pm (UTC)(First comment after the Great LJ Out-Migration)
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Date: 2017-04-09 11:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-04-10 02:33 am (UTC)The edition I have [Tor; 1990; ISBN 0-812-51001-1] has, on page 140, a brief essay + story design notes about a never-written *Tale of Known Space*, that would have been called "Down In Flames", and in which -- had it ever been written -- Niven would have (one hypothesizes, very entertainingly) destroyed the entirety of Known Space in one Giant Hyper-Dimensional, Reality-rending 'Protector' vs. True-Kzin (q.v.) War, thereby making it the very final *Tale of Known Space*.
In the essay prefacing the plot outline notes, Niven says that he came up with the intention to hyper-nuke Known Space, at the instigation of Norman Spinrad, on Jan. 14, 1968 -- which seems rather early on, all things considered, -- but there it is. As for the precision of the date, I infer that it must have been written on the original actual physical paper plot notes in some way, or else implied to Niven by some other date-clues recorded there (i.e., rather than recalled by him from memory).
It -- that essay and the story-outline notes -- were the very reason I bought the N-Space book (though, I can no longer recall where: probably in a bookstore somewhere in K/W, as IIRC that's where I was living at the time).
They were the reason, because never, ever before had I anywhere seen an author explain how and why a story came to be (or, didn't come to be), and more importantly, how that author went about (or would have gone about) scaffolding and then writing up the [or, a] story.
Prior to my reading "Down In Flames", to me SF&F stories were just mysterious Gifts from The Gods (i.e., their authors), -- miraculous entertainments appearing on bookstore shelves rather "inexplicably".
After reading "Down In Flames", I realized that writing was "just" a thing certain crafters do, like making a cabinet, or some pies, or a decent sweater. It kind of smacked me upside the head with a forty-pound frozen mackerel to realize it was a craft. That is, a thing even I could presumably do, if I set out to acquire the skills and master that craft. It is obviously hard work, being a professional author (as Charles Stross makes quite clear over at his blog, for example), but I had never before realized that it was _merely_ hard work.
Ever since then, that specific essay by Niven, which I guess in some indirect way means Larry Niven himself, has been at the back of my mind, nagging me to get off my @$$ and go and write (as Charles Stross puts it) "entertaining lies for money". I never have done so, but also that incessant, quiet, gentle, whispered nagging has never, ever stopped. It probably is the thing that drives me to places like MWDH, Autopope's demesne, and similar Oases out here in the sprawling, vile and desolate Wastelands of Cyberia.
So, I personally curse Mr. Niven for very different reasons than does, say, formerly frequent MWDH commenter Carlos Yu, whose occasional scathing take-downs of Mr. Niven were quite entertaining -- or than does our gracious host here at this just-now relocated forum, who has from time to time made rather pointed observations about Mr. Niven's, ah, sociological opinions.
In any event, Niven says that he very, very nearly went through with writing & submitting "Down In Flames" -- but then he came up with the idea for the Ringworld, and as "Ringworld", the story, was (in his mind) dependent on plot constraints set in Known Space, that was that. It was either: write "Down In Flames", or write "Ringworld" -- and, as we all know, "Rignworld" is where Niven went with it.
TSM_in_Toronto
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Date: 2017-04-10 07:34 am (UTC)(You know, given a writer better than 2017 Niven, I wouldn't mind a space opera where the various races of known space have to deal with the invasion of the galaxy by the _cautious_ Tnuctipun, which put themselves in stasis in case something went wrong with their takedown of the slavers,and have only been recently been woken up by their machines).
Bruce Munro
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Date: 2017-04-10 10:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-04-10 08:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-04-09 05:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-04-09 08:16 pm (UTC)[The link above seems to be forbidden now; not sure if something changed or if it was only working for me as a result of the way I got there + caching, but go to this page and scroll about ⅔ of the way down (or do a search for "Niven") to see it in situ. Thanks to scott_sanford & (Anonymous).]
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Date: 2017-04-10 08:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-04-11 01:35 am (UTC)http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacemaps.php
About 3/4 of the way down the page, in the "20 Light-Year Radius" section.
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Date: 2017-04-12 01:49 am (UTC)Cover puzzles, Yay!
Date: 2017-04-10 01:06 am (UTC)I think Niven was at his best in 'cool science puzzle' short stories, with the characters just vehicles. Even after the science became outdated, they were still enjoyable as puzzles.
Unfortunately, there was more money in novels, and he started (trying) to add characterization, which was not a strength, to be charitable.
Riderius
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Date: 2017-04-10 02:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-04-10 04:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-04-11 02:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-04-11 03:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-04-11 07:50 pm (UTC)