james_davis_nicoll | On a related note

Was They'd Rather be Right ever actually popular? It's certainly got to head some sort of "what the hell were we thinking" list.

Lucifer's Hammer?

Critical darlings, award winners, or slaps in the face to mundane taste?

I think people will likely look back at Ender's Game and wtf.

I'd suggest the Gor series...but of course, we all know what they were thinking.

Some embarrassing trends, like Laurenn J. Framingham, haven't even crested yet. But I think these two are in a persistent vegetative state:

John W. Campbell's editorship. Because what science fiction really needed was an injection of Confederate Psychic magazine!

The Star Trek novel. There have been, what, two good Star Trek novels? out of six hundred sixty-six? and now you can't even give them away at rummage sales?

Slan?

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Hm. I know people hate Heinlein for political reasons, and because of the suffering he inflicted on innocent readers in his later career (say, from I Will Fear No Spankings onward). But do people really not get why things like the Future History, Double Star, etc. are still in print, generations after they first saw the light? Hint: it has nothing to do with Randism.

Written SF only? Because I'd like to nominate The Dark Knight Returns.

In a much more recent vein than most of the suggestions offered to date: Laurell K. Hamilton.

Personally, I would also nominate A Case of Conscience, which I thought was one of the most horrible messes of a novel that I've ever read. But I still seem to be in a minority opinion on that.

If you pull out the old SF Hall of Fame collections, you can find some real shockers in the short-story field. "The Marching Morons" comes to mind.

I remain somewhat bewildered at my one-time fascination with the Pern novels, but I suppose experiences vary.

"Ringworld"? Hell, the whole "known space" universe in general? Ignore the unobtanium-mediated physics, just the biology alone is more than a bit weird. And have you noticed how the human protagonists all seem to be Californian-descended millionaires? Just once I'd like to have seen some hint that poor folks still existed -- other than the odd token pickpocket.

Dune (and really, everything by Frank Herbert) - dear god that man manages to pack big heaps of misogyny into everything he ever wrote.

Peter F Hamilton's Night's Dawn Trilogy would have to be quite high up, around the 3 or 4 mark easily, just on the strength of the Gypsy character who is also a prostitute with herbal powers that allow her to treat giant psychic cancer tumours.

Actually, will people look back on the 1000+ page doorstop novels in general with horror?

If there was ever a perfect SF novel, then there wouldnt be a need to keep publishing more SF, so, each flawed novel keeps our brains alert for the threads of greatness we are denied.

When a certain book/series or a Venerated Author gets to the point where no one really can poke at the Sacred Cow for the work, they get away with bad writing, but, on the opposite side, flaying said cow alive and parading its head through town is a bit cruel.

I adore Dickson's "The Cosmic Computer", but its dated and rereading it now has cringy bits, but, I felt at first read that it had a lot to say.

Hey, here's a convenient list of Hugo-winning novels! Let's see, which ones do I look back at and wince...?

1959: A Case of Conscience, Blish
1965: The Wanderer, Leiber (I should probably re-read this one)
1973: The Gods Themselves, Asimov
1974: Rendezvous with Rama, Clarke
1988: The Uplift War, Brin
2003: Hominids, Sawyer (Haven't actually read this, but I did read Sawyer's Calculating God, which I hated so much that I'm assuming that everything he writes just sucks)

...plus probably a few others I haven't read.

Oh, oh, I know. Neuromancer.

Does fantasy get a separate list? If not, I nominate Harry Potter and the Endless Sequels.

James, how about a spinoff asking which SF works have notably withstood the test of time?

Having recently re-read Childhood's End, it would be my nominee.

Bob Shea & Anton-Wilson's Illuminatus Trilogy. I had very fond memories of those books after discovering them....ooh about 15 years ago. Re-reading them recently really did make me wonder, "what the hell was I thinking?"

Foundation's Edge, which was apparently well-received enough to win some major awards.

It's a bit mindboggling that nobody has yet mentioned Gor...(which I can still remember dominating bookstore SF sections)

Did anyone ever actually enjoy Silverlock, or was the various self-complementary blurbage and introductions in the version I saw rather a form of informed popularity?

Ok... two (edit: wait, I found more) several for the hall of shame:

"The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant: Lord Foul's Bane" by Stephen R. Donaldson - way to start a mass market trade on the super market store shelve with a graphic rape scene right at the beginning.

"Tarot" by Piers Anthony - genetic racial profiling loses out to a really bad 'black trash talk" contest ala 'yo momma' where the winner loses by comparing his competitor to excrement and urine(thus violating the color rules because talk about anything black and yellow means you're really a whitey.) no, I'm not making that up. Read it yourself if you are a fan of 1970's ethnic stereotyping.

... by Jack L. Chalker - no one specific title because, well, there are just so many twisted and disturbing titles to choose from. He did some great work at one time, but degenerated into repeating the same body and mind twisting motif. Like a record stuck in a grove and slowly degrading in quality with each repitiion. Choose from the Lord of the Diamond series, Dancing Gods series, Soul Rider series, Changewinds series, Quintara Marathonseriess, Wonderland Gambit series... and many singletons too.

Xanth 4+ by Piers Anthony - Back to him, sigh. This series was pretty good and probably should have stopped at number 3. But it became a yearly series with the same story 'coming of age' story repeated over and over. Up to what number 34 now? I guess that once a working formula is established, using it to make a living shouldn't be damning. But I did so like his story telling at one point, and now I just get 'deja vue' anytime I pick up one of these.

There's probably more. Last one for now.

What IDIOT placed John Ringo's "Paladin of Shadows" series (Ghost, Kildar, Chooser of the Slain, Unto the Breach, and A Deeper Blue)in the SCI-FI category??? I'm sure most readers of his science fiction will be surprised by the graphic BDSM scenes and doublely disappointed to find it a Tom Clancy-ish modern military fiction having no "Sci-Fi" elements at all.

- l8tr

Edited 2009-03-16 18:01 (UTC)

Palmer's Emergence is one of those books that seemed really cool when I first read it, but on reflection turned creepier and creepier. There's the narrator Mary Sue character, the pre-adolescent sex element, the "fans are slan" subtext, the "Let's kill off all the stupid people" tone...I don't think I could read it again.

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Um. Here's a WTF for me.

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