If Foundation's Galactic Empire was more like the Roman Empire

[james_davis_nicoll]

It would account for between a sixth and a quarter of the human population of the Milky Way and something like one in thirty of stars of the Milky Way, if I have not bolloxed up this quick back of the envelope calculation.

Comments

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

Given how Roman civil wars went, they'd also probably have around nine emperors over the course of the movies.

[nelc.livejournal.com]

I think this is Asimov's Empire, rather than Lucas'.

[beamjockey.livejournal.com]

But isn't Lucas's Empire really Asimov's? Lucas put Trantor on the big screen, too.

I wonder if someone in the Star Wars galaxy is writing an encyclopedia?

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

Who would read it? (http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/10/most-citizens-of-the-star-wars-galaxy-are-probably-totally-illiterate)

[mrteufel.livejournal.com]

Huh. Add that to the idea that the SW series are actually Post-Revolution propaganda... it really makes sense.

[derekl1963.livejournal.com]

"The final nail in the coffin which proves widespread illiteracy is how fast stories of the Jedi mutate from a fact of everyday life into legend, seemingly overnight."

That speaks to me more of impeeded communications (person-to-person rather than mass) than illiteracy. Even literate cultures create and spread urban legends - as anyone who reads the 'net for more than an hour should know.

[kithrup.livejournal.com]

snicker

James and I read some of the same blogs.

[nelc.livejournal.com]

About as much it's Ming's empire, or Tokugawa's.

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

Lucas's galaxy is actually pretty balkanized.

they did

[gary-farber.livejournal.com]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Re: they did

[beamjockey.livejournal.com]

Cogent reply to an old remark I'd forgotten I'd made. Hi, Gary!

Re: they did

[gary-farber.livejournal.com]

Death will not release you from an online discussion.

[dewline.livejournal.com]

Good point. Until I know which Galactic Empire we're talking about...

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

I've clarified this point.

Count of Emperors

[(Anonymous)]

Lucky hit.
Onum Barr in Big and Small tells that Empire had had precisely 9 Emperors in 50 years.

[(Anonymous)]

Slightly more than the space-Chinese empire on the other side of the galactic wheel?

Bruce

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

What was the area controlled by the Eastern Jin?

(You know, the fifth century does not seem to have been a great time for grand empires)

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

Clearly very few Chinese Dynasties ever heard the term "too big to fail".

this probably did not help.

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_changes_of_535%E2%80%93536

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

So if Foundation is roughly 400 - 500:

China is experiencing dynastic succession, political chaos and warfare, but technological progress and settlement south of the Yangtze River.

Weird: just as Rome was increasingly overrun with Christians, China had Buddhists popping up increasingly frequently after the first century.

The Guptas start the 5th century well but end badly as they collapse in the face of the Hephthalites.

Persia: starts in a not a golden but not a horrible age and then has Hephthalite issues.

Kadamba: Not a totally horrible period for them. They very sensibly did something Persia and the Guptas failed to do, which was to have someone between them and Central Asia.

Anyone else in the Old World qualify for Great Power status at this time? Nomads don't count.

The New World civilizations (which I guess in this case would be represented by the LMC and the SMC) hit road bumps later on.

[austin-dern.livejournal.com]

The Sagittarius Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy, which I just learned exists, could be the Azores, if they weren't on the way wrong side of the galaxy to be that for the Magellanic Clouds.

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

I think we have our Japan.

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

Anyone have a better map?

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

So Space Rome is at 180 degrees, Space China at 0, Space India and Space Persia in between in the spiral arms and the Space Nomads come from the core, where habitable planets are rare and so force humans to live in their space ships.

[akicif.livejournal.com]

Waves of barbarians fleeing the Core Explosion?

[fridgepunk.livejournal.com]

You need Axum (Acksum, ethiopia) (frequently said to be on par with persia by the persians during that period, went christian in the 2nd century) to facilitate trade between The Empire and the equivalent of india, it had the occasional problem that some of its naval forces would sometimes go pirate and attempt to steal whole cities, and Axum also acted as a temporary host for muhammed, who would operate a kaliphate in exile during that period before he took medina and mecca.

[sean o'hara (from livejournal.com)]

Would this make the Mule Mohammad? Considering all the other blinkered ideas in the series -- self-determination is for losers; hooray for cultural imperialism and hegemony; a unipolar galaxy is the only way to go -- it would make sense.

[lpetrazickis.livejournal.com]

Asimov said that he based the Mule on Timur, with Foundation playing the role of the Ottomans.

[montedavis.livejournal.com]

Gotta work lead poisoning in there via metal-rich stars. That's always been my favorite example of "mildly interesting speculation becomes widely half-remembered splains-it-all factoid."

[mmcirvin.livejournal.com]

Don't forget: the drop in violence in US society post-1990 was caused by the phasing out of lead paint. (Violence was lower pre-1960s because LOOK OVER THERE!)

[montedavis.livejournal.com]

And the Indus Valley civilization collapsed because of a really bad batch of turmeric.

[tomscud.livejournal.com]

Leaded gasoline, also, right? Which actually does make sense of the pre-1960s to a first crappy approximation.

[mindstalk.livejournal.com]

No, that theory is about the phasing out of leaded gas. And it blames the rise in violence on the original phasing in of leaded gas.

[neowolf2.livejournal.com]

"Lead stars" (giant stars unusually rich in lead) are actually metal-poor!

This is because lead is the end element of the S-process, and very metal-poor stars have fewer seed nuclei for the neutrons to be captured on, so each gets more neutrons, and more go all the way to the end.

[(Anonymous)]

(not necessarily for actual posting)

Sorry for being an annoying pedant, James, but shouldn't this entry be tagged 'foundation'?

Just sayin'

TSM_in_Toronto