Question

[james_davis_nicoll]

Is it possible to find nice things to say about France without the ensuing discussion rapidly evolving into a U!S!A! U!S!A! U!S!A! discussion of health-care systems and such?

No.

Comments

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

The bit at the end about Australia reminds me of some old extremely acrimonious discussions on SHWI about Australia's carrying capacity.

Inevitable destination

[selkiechick]

I am not sure it's possible to discuss anything (on the internet), from space travel to adorable kittens or jello recipes without ending up in a discussion on health care systems or self aggrandizing nationalism... or both (and from there... to Hitler!).
Starting with France just makes that inevitable journey a bit more direct.

[galbinus-caeli.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but France really sucks because when I flew home from Paris on Air France last week the Coffee Maker and the Espresso Machine weren't working on the plane. It was horrible. Had to make due with wine.

[selkiechick]

We all feel your pain.

[seawasp]

Whine seems universal, not limited to France.

[daveon.livejournal.com]

I don't know how you survived. I bet the wine was that crappy drinkable stuff that had a complicated flavour, compared to, say, alcoholic grape juice?

[dd-b.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't expect it to be in any broadly public forum, no.

Lots of people seem to be terribly threatened by the fact that the French are having the kind of lives they want (to the same degree that Americans are having they kind we want) and they're different from ours.

Which is a shame, because the comparisons, if I could get information I believed, would probably be interesting.

[carloshasanax.livejournal.com]

Charlie let Stevar back? tsk. The only thing people like Stevar understand is the fist. And the slap. and the kick to the crotch. and the ritual humiliation. Except I think he craves it. But I digress.

[dsrtao]

Yes, but you have to hold the discussion in French.


(I suspect any non-English language might work, actually.)

[dcseain.livejournal.com]

Spanish does not prevent such devolution.

[kithrup.livejournal.com]

I was thinking about it, but I am an ignorant american, so all I really know about is California And any time I came up with a list of good things, the other side kept filling my head.

[selkiechick]

The meme was to come up with 5 nice things about a country you did not currently, and had never lived in. While I am certian there are people who read that blog who do not live in the US.... there are a lot of other places also worthy of mentioning.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

I'm struck by how no one there put up a list of five great things about living in the good old U.S. of A...

Does this count as evidence that one can't even have a discussion about the possibility of finding nice things to say about France without the ensuing discussion rapidly devolving, etc?

[al-zorra.livejournal.com]

Jules Verne, a citizen of France, published Journey to the Center of the Earth in 1864. H.G. Wells published The Time Machine in 1895.

Mary Shelley, of course, published Frankenstein in 1818 -- anonymously in England. The second edition, with her name on it, was published in -- France!

And I'll take odds that you and everybody else here knows all this already.

Love, C.

[schizmatic.livejournal.com]

Well, I lived in Canada for about six years, and noted that a discussion of things like, say, level of social services a government does/should provide quickly devolved into nationalism about the absolute moral superiority of Canada. (Although I suspect that if I'd known any Tories the flavor of said conversations might have been different).

[maruad.livejournal.com]

There are many Americans whom I feel are morally superior to our current Tories if that helps. Unfortunately I think our Tories are modeling themselves after the Americans to whom I feel superior.

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

if I'd known any Tories the flavor of said conversations might have been different

I dare not mention the title as the story is not yet published but I think everyone here will be thrilled to know that I got a story featured 1: a community of grasping, lazy welfare bums taking advantage of their betters thanks to a soft-headed reformer and 2: an oppressed ethnic minority who turn out to be reflexively violent back-stabbers if not kept aggressively oppressed by their betters.

Interestingly, it was a fantasy novel and not SF.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

They make decent cheese.

[al-zorra.livejournal.com]

Chic. No one, no one, has chic like the French. This holds as true for the overseas departments such as Martinque and Guadeloupe, as well as for former colonies such as Vietnam and Senegal. A Frenchwoman knows how to present so little with an elán that nobody else can rival.

Not any accident the Fre3nch invented ballet and the swashbuckling historical adventure, via Dumas.

There is wine, also.

Love, C.

[kithrup.livejournal.com]

I seem to recall that was Dan Moran's response to why the French rule the world in his Continuing Time stories -- they just seemed cool to him when he was a kid.

[agent-mimi.livejournal.com]

Everyone mentions the wine, but I find I enjoy Italian wines much more than French wines. I am a fan of traditional French "home cooking" meals, though.

[aisb23.livejournal.com]

Speaking as retired professional wine geek (I used to sell the stuff for a living) I also tend to prefer Italian and Spanish wines to French. But I'll still drink French before most California wines.

[mmcirvin.livejournal.com]

Delacroix. Ingres. Monet. Renoir. Alfred Jarry. Boris Vian. Moebius.

[agent-mimi.livejournal.com]

I prefer Renoir in the original Klingon.

[ross-teneyck.livejournal.com]

There was a time -- back before 9/11 and "freedom fries" and all that -- when I, in my naiveté, assumed that the reason that many people in the U.S. openly and broadly mocked the French was that it was obvious that we didn't really mean it. Because, you know, it would be ridiculous to actually have that level of bizarre animosity towards one of our major international allies. I imagined it was like the way that you're free to call your close friends names you would never hurl at a stranger; it's OK because everyone knows you're really best buds.

The popular U.S. reaction to France declining to jump on the Let's-Invade-Iraq-Because-9/11 bandwagon was quite the unpleasant eye-opener.

[anzhalyumitethe.livejournal.com]

eh.

I've always viewed the Canadian, American, British and French relations as arguments between siblings. Sometimes it gets nasty. Sometimes it gets mushy. However, in the end, we are still family.

[errolwi.livejournal.com]

The thread does seem to be recovering nicely, and with minimal moderator intervention as well!

[agent-mimi.livejournal.com]

This reminds me, I did think of something new to shout during the 4th of July fireworks this year: "Thanks for the help, France!" I wish some of my redneckier neighbors had been around at the time.