Atheists are people, too

[james_davis_nicoll]

Unfortunately that means some of them are terrible people.

I’ve been writing about atheism for about 10 years now. What has driven me is a combination of awe at the amazing insights produced by science, so much deeper and more substantial than any collection of myths, and a furious rage at the lies and injustice and corruption of humanity by religion. For a while there, in the middle, there was also an ebullience at the growing success of atheism, and hope that someday we would be able to cast aside the follies of faith. The awe is still here, the rage is still burning, but the optimism is fading and is being consumed by a new anger at the incompetence and betrayal of the self-appointed atheist leadership.

Comments

[youraugustine.livejournal.com]

And I can understand the personal experience and take.

On the flipside, as a polytheist, in my life I have actually been evangelized at (and condescended to, and treated like an idiot, and patronised, and otherwise treated badly) by so many self-proclaimed atheists that I am more wary of someone who feels the need to tell me they're an atheist than someone who feels the need to tell me they're a Christian.

So it exists, and it exists as most organizations amongst humans do: at least in part to tell everyone else that they're wrong and ruining society and should be ashamed of themselves.

[seth ellis (from livejournal.com)]

Which brings us back to the original point that atheists can be shitty.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

Dear gods yes. In my experience the problem is two-fold - evangelical atheists are no more pleasant company than evangelists for any other belief system, and also the vast majority of athiest arguments are focused on Christianity (with a large side-order of bigotry and Islamophobia for atheists who are also vile bigots), and so few of their arguments even make sense wrt my own (neopagan) belief system, and more than a few atheists seem to lack the ability to see that all faiths do not have the same (obvious) faults as fundamentalist Christianity.

[dragoness-e.livejournal.com]

I've noticed that, too. More than a few of the louder and more ignorant atheists seem to be unaware that there are any forms of Christianity other than evangelical fundamentalists, let alone any comprehension of neo-pagans, old pagans, the major polytheistic religions of the modern world, or even basic cultural anthropology.

[fiddlingfrog.livejournal.com]

Or belief in a creator without an organized religion surrounding that belief.

[dragoness-e.livejournal.com]

That, too. I also forgot to mention flaming ignorance of actual Islam, the theology of Judaism, or religions that don't really emphasise the role of "the Creator", such as various forms of animism.

Finally, there are spiritually-inclined persons who have had direct experience of the supernatural. To such an person, the atheist worldview makes about as much sense as Young Earth Creationism does to a geologist working the lower levels of the Grand Canyon. I.e, it comes across as the babbling of a smug, ignorant fool and isn't going to persuade said spiritual person that the atheist has anything of value to say.

Calling said spiritual person a deluded idiot while mocking their deities ("magical sky fairy" and the like)--who may well be close personal friends in the case of animists or neo-pagans-- won't make them magically agree with the atheist. It will just make them see the atheist as a smug, ignorant, rude asshole.

Edits: because I can't speel early in the morning.

[ethelmay.livejournal.com]

"Finally, there are spiritually-inclined persons who have had direct experience of the supernatural. To such an person, the atheist worldview makes about as much sense as Young Earth Creationism does to a geologist working the lower levels of the Grand Canyon. I.e, it comes across as the babbling of a smug, ignorant fool and isn't going to persuade said spiritual person that the atheist has anything of value to say."

If that were true, I couldn't BE an atheist without inherently disrespecting you (even if I never said a word about your religious experiences one way or another). Moreover, if that were true, you couldn't be a spiritual person without inherently disrespecting me. I hope that's not what you actually mean to imply.

[mme-hardy.livejournal.com]

To such an person, the atheist worldview makes about as much sense as Young Earth Creationism does to a geologist working the lower levels of the Grand Canyon. I.e, it comes across as the babbling of a smug, ignorant fool and isn't going to persuade said spiritual person that the atheist has anything of value to say.

Let me loudly disagree. I have had what I believe to be direct experience with something outside myself. To me, the atheist worldview makes perfect sense, given that atheists haven't had that direct experience (or have had something similar that they explain in a different way.)

It is absolutely possible for a believer to respect atheists, to respect the intellectual and emotional paths that have led them to choose atheism, and to learn a lot from various atheists.

[ethelmay.livejournal.com]

"To me, the atheist worldview makes perfect sense, given that atheists haven't had that direct experience (or have had something similar that they explain in a different way.)"

Thank you. For context, I was raised agnostic, decided early in my high school years that I believed in Christianity, was baptized Episcopalian at 21, and subsequently changed my mind and left the church. I have indeed had experiences of my own that at one time I thought of as religious experiences and now see otherwise. Of course I can't know whether they're anything like what anyone else has experienced.

[dragoness-e.livejournal.com]

I was referring to a specific subset of atheists, what someone above referred to as "evangelistic atheists"--those who aggressively denigrate all religion, proclaim all non-atheists to be deluded sheep, love the expression "magical sky fairy", and often try to argue questionable premises as established fact ("there is no supernatural", "obviously no one was raised from the dead", etc).

I have no problem with someone who has had different experiences and come to different conclusions. If a/any religion doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. What I do not respect are people who insist that your or my experiences and beliefs are invalid because they don't believe that way themselves.

[ethelmay.livejournal.com]

"I was referring to a specific subset of atheists"

"The atheist worldview" is not a very good name for that subset.

I don't really know whether I think other people's beliefs are valid. I am not sure I know what you mean by validity. If I thought their beliefs were completely valid, after all, I would agree with them, and if I don't, I don't. But I don't have to agree with everything someone else thinks in order to get along with them -- just enough so that we have sufficient assumptions in common that we aren't inherently incompatible. Some beliefs are going to be deal-breakers for me. Lots aren't.

[seth ellis (from livejournal.com)]

Aside from the points above, experience of the supernatural isn't the same as experience of the divine, and while atheism is often strictly materialist, it doesn't have to be. Smug generalizations about "the atheist worldview," as though that were a singular coherent thing, aren't any more convincing than any other smug generalizations.

[scentofviolets.livejournal.com]

Just what will make them agree with the atheist? If the answer is 'nothing', maybe they shouldn't be bringing up their religion in the first place.

This is something of a general principle actually: don't presume to lecture to me about your views if you have no intention of listening to mine in return. Fair enough?