james_davis_nicoll (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
james_davis_nicoll) wrote2012-11-18 07:56 pm
james_davis_nicoll) wrote2012-11-18 07:56 pm
What is the human-caused climate change denier position
On the Dust Bowl.
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That was a long time ago, and things that were only photographed in black-and-white probably never happened, anyway. Also, Steinbeck was a liberal.
"It was just weather. Farming practices probably made it worse, but when you come down to it, it was just weather."
I actually saw this somewhere recently. Hoyt's commenter? Anyway, wherever it was, it was your fault.
I actually saw this somewhere recently. Hoyt's commenter? Anyway, wherever it was, it was your fault.
Clearly, the Okkie rush to California will be replicated as humanity leaves this planet for a bold new future in the freedom of space.
If that happened without SUVs, that proves that climate change is not human caused.
A point, in a way - deniers point to geologically-earlier periods of warming such as the Paleocene blip and ask where were all the SUVs that caused that therefore no anthropogenic climate change plus those scientists are in it for the big grants.
Conservapedia disappointingly doesn't shed much light on this. There's a hint of it on the wikipedia talk page but not a lot.
"Dust Bowl? Never heard of it."
This, especially the "it was your fault" bit.
God did it. Apparently he doesn't much like farmers.
I certainly hear that climate was exactly the same up until 20 or 30 years ago, when things began getting amazingly hotter in a way which has never happened before, ever. So any reports of bad weather in the 1930s were just that, weather, not climate change.
In the same way, the recent storm that hit New York and the rest of the east coast is said to be caused by climate change; the great storms that hit New York in the 1930s, and there were several, were just regular storms.
In the same way, the recent storm that hit New York and the rest of the east coast is said to be caused by climate change; the great storms that hit New York in the 1930s, and there were several, were just regular storms.
Well, the model of climate change that I've been seeing is that human-driven climate change started a while before the Industrial Revolution, and the current crisis is a result of accumulated effects and acceleration.
I'm not seeing actual scientists saying that any one particular storm is caused by climate change: I'm seeing a discussion about trends, the shape of things, statistics, frequencies, overall effects.
But you may in fact be hearing all manner of things from whoever you listen to.
I'm not seeing actual scientists saying that any one particular storm is caused by climate change: I'm seeing a discussion about trends, the shape of things, statistics, frequencies, overall effects.
But you may in fact be hearing all manner of things from whoever you listen to.
Your fault. I had to go there and read random pages till I found this:
Using population estimates, we know that about 300 million people existed in the world at the time of Christ, and extrapolating backwards yields only one family in the year 3300 B.C.
In an introductory article on world history.
Why do they have homework answers as wikipedia articles?
What is conservapedia, really? Is it a homeschool project?
Using population estimates, we know that about 300 million people existed in the world at the time of Christ, and extrapolating backwards yields only one family in the year 3300 B.C.
In an introductory article on world history.
Why do they have homework answers as wikipedia articles?
What is conservapedia, really? Is it a homeschool project?
"What is conservapedia, really? Is it a homeschool project?"
In short, yes. Phyllis Schlafly's son, Andrew, who is just as much of a Wingnut as his mother, put it together with the help of a bunch of homeschooled teenage kids. Cf http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia:Newcomer's_Guide
In short, yes. Phyllis Schlafly's son, Andrew, who is just as much of a Wingnut as his mother, put it together with the help of a bunch of homeschooled teenage kids. Cf http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia:Newcomer's_Guide
Gaagh, mobile safari broke the link i pasted.
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Gaagh, mobile safari broke the link i pasted. <a href＝"http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conservapedia:Newcomer's_Guide"> try this</a>
Mostly not to be a pedantic dick (OK. That is a lie. However, there is a small nugget of desire for increased knowledge buried within the seething, hateful mass that is my desire to be my pedantic dick), I thought that the dust bowl really wasn't a climate change phenomena. My understanding was that the dust bowl was a combination principally of drought plus ill considered farming techniques. Excluding folks who box themselves into deeply stupid arguments and don't know how to back down, it isn't my sense that climate change deniers deny that human beings can affect the land. Although that may have changed...
Granting that this is 15+ years gone, but certainly most anyone in the small farming town I grew up in who had an opinion on the subject a) didn't really believe in global warming but also b) thought the dust bowl was an epic example of human stupidity. These were mostly the middle aged farmers, guys I met when I was tagging along with my Dad (who acted as field man for his processing company).
On reflection though, it was another time. While they were reflexively both socially conservative as well as deeply suspicious of environmentalists[1]. But they were also mostly college educated at least to some extent and on really good terms with the OSU Ag extension office. It was their much better provided children who were already drifting into a Limbaugh influenced proto-Tea Party world view.
Huh. So really, this whole comment is much about nothing, but I'm pleased to have thought about it.
[1]For reasons both fair and specious, the then extant Oregon environmental movement had a habit of really pissing off farmers. UofO really went in for a quantity over quality strategy in hippy production, in those days.
Granting that this is 15+ years gone, but certainly most anyone in the small farming town I grew up in who had an opinion on the subject a) didn't really believe in global warming but also b) thought the dust bowl was an epic example of human stupidity. These were mostly the middle aged farmers, guys I met when I was tagging along with my Dad (who acted as field man for his processing company).
On reflection though, it was another time. While they were reflexively both socially conservative as well as deeply suspicious of environmentalists[1]. But they were also mostly college educated at least to some extent and on really good terms with the OSU Ag extension office. It was their much better provided children who were already drifting into a Limbaugh influenced proto-Tea Party world view.
Huh. So really, this whole comment is much about nothing, but I'm pleased to have thought about it.
[1]For reasons both fair and specious, the then extant Oregon environmental movement had a habit of really pissing off farmers. UofO really went in for a quantity over quality strategy in hippy production, in those days.
According to Wikipedia, the winds and occasional drought were normal every so often. The loose dirt for the winds to carry was human caused.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl
"In it for the big grants" is just the cover-up for a much larger wealth transfer. What the AGW conspiracy really wants is to cripple US economic growth and give China, India et al a free pass to race ahead.
Note that this version gets extra mileage if the believer already resents affirmative-action policies. It's the biggest such program EVAR!
Note that this version gets extra mileage if the believer already resents affirmative-action policies. It's the biggest such program EVAR!
Sure, it might make more sense for James to slap a blanket Memetic Prophylactic Recommended label on the whole LJ. But I believe that he still nurtures the intent someday to post a 100% wholesome entry, free of any reference or link to the fecklessness and folly of our species.
I say it could happen, and... what? No, I'm not a betting man.
I say it could happen, and... what? No, I'm not a betting man.
Edited 2012-11-19 11:16 (UTC)
As far as I know, periodic nasty droughts in the mid-West have been happening for as far back as the climate proxies can be measured; the Dust Bowl is an example of inept adaptation to climate change.
Perhaps if we can find a suitable substitute for our delicious tears...
Dust bowl? You mean FDR's thinly concealed plot to nationalize Americas farmland and institute collectivist farming?
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