NPR Top 100 Science Fiction, Fantasy Books refreshingly Void-free

[james_davis_nicoll]

Just as I called it in June, "more sausages than Oktoberfest."



At quick glance says it's 13 15 women in the top 100. None in the top ten. In fact the first woman shows up at position 20 unless for some reason it's a bad idea to do this before coffee has sunk in and I missed one two.

[I am assuming Morgan's count is right and mine was wrong)

Comments

[montoya.livejournal.com]

HBO has sure done a lot for Martin's reputation.

[ambyr.livejournal.com]

Well, when female-authored books only make up 22% percent of your voting pool to begin with. . .

I mostly read female-authored books. I expected to have a hard time narrowing my vote down to 10; instead, I read through their nomination list, and then had to read through it again just to come up with 10 things to vote for, because so little of what I read and like even appeared as an option.

Well, ten authors; I could have just voted for all the LeGuin and Cherryh and Butler, but it seemed more reasonable to spread things out a bit. But now I see Cherryh and Butler didn't even rate the top 100, so in retrospect. . . .

For ease of reference...

[moonlithoughts.livejournal.com]

20. Frankenstein, by Mary Shelley
23. The Handmaid's Tale, by Margaret Atwood
33. Dragonflight, by Anne McCaffrey
42. The Mists Of Avalon, by Marion Zimmer Bradley
45. The Left Hand Of Darkness, by Ursula K. LeGuin
64. Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell, by Susanna Clarke
69. The Farseer Trilogy, by Robin Hobb
70. The Time Traveler's Wife, by Audrey Niffenegger
77. The Kushiel's Legacy Series, by Jacqueline Carey
78. The Dispossessed, by Ursula K. LeGuin
84. The Crystal Cave, by Mary Stewart
89. The Outlander Series, by Diana Gabaldan
92. Sunshine, by Robin McKinley
95. The Mars Trilogy, by Kim Stanley Robinson

Haven't had my coffee either so I may have missed something.

Re: For ease of reference...

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

KSR is a guy.

Re: For ease of reference...

[cshalizi.livejournal.com]

Kim Stanley Robinson is male (at least if I can trust Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Stanley_Robinson)).

Re: For ease of reference...

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

20. Frankenstein, by Mary Shelley
23. The Handmaid's Tale, by Margaret Atwood
33. Dragonflight, by Anne McCaffrey
42. The Mists Of Avalon, by Marion Zimmer Bradley
45. The Left Hand Of Darkness, by Ursula K. LeGuin
59. The Vorkosigan Saga, by Lois McMaster Bujold
64. Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell, by Susanna Clarke
69. The Farseer Trilogy, by Robin Hobb
70. The Time Traveler's Wife, by Audrey Niffenegger
77. The Kushiel's Legacy Series, by Jacqueline Carey
78. The Dispossessed, by Ursula K. LeGuin
84. The Crystal Cave, by Mary Stewart
89. The Outlander Series, by Diana Gabaldan
92. Sunshine, by Robin McKinley
97. Doomsday Book, by Connie Willis

Re: For ease of reference...

[moonlithoughts.livejournal.com]

Goddamnit I knew I was gonna do that.

Re: For ease of reference...

[thespian.livejournal.com]

I find it interesting that the top woman wrote before it was really a genre (though if it came out today it would be filed as urban fantasy), the next one insists that that particular novel isn't science fiction (indeed we all remember her vigourously denying any of her work is, though she's relented, of late).

Re: For ease of reference...

[matt-ruff.livejournal.com]

Was Harry Potter ineligible for some reason?

[nojay.livejournal.com]

Where does J. K. Rowling come in that list? She's sold tens of millions, possibly hundreds of millions of copies of seven titles in the past ten years or so. That would seem to indicate that she's incredibly popular with the reading public so you'd sort of expect her to appear SOMEWHERE on that list.

[matt-ruff.livejournal.com]

Next up: more Atwood-bashing than whatever the German festival is where Atwoods are traditionally bashed.

Re: For ease of reference...

[coalescent.livejournal.com]

Yes, they excluded published-as-YA.

[nevillepark.myopenid.com (from livejournal.com)]

I am kind of depressed that there isn't even one non-white author on the list—but given that the finalists included (by my reckoning) only four authors of colour, I'm not surprised.

[nevillepark.myopenid.com (from livejournal.com)]

Disqualified for being YA.

[rosefox]

Is anyone surprised that this happened when both the initial nominations and the votes came from The Masses?

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

I don't think I am allowed to have both predicted the outcome and to be surprised by it.

[rosefox]

Obviously you aren't surprised. Just wondering whether anyone is.

[wynnsfolly.livejournal.com]

in a breakdown by authors, not books, what percentage of the top 237 were female versus male?
I'd credit a heavier bias for older "classic" "this is the first sf I read" titles over the more recent titles as being even more evident.
I limited my votes to one per author, and the male-authored books I voted for all ranked higher than the female-authored books with one exception.
the fact that that one exception was the oldest & the only single-book choice instead of a series suggest that the greater number of voters were older and less current in their reading than the average current reader of the genre.
for the record, the authors whose work I voted for were: Tolkien, Asimov, Heinlein, McCaffrey, Niven, Bujold, Cherryh, Novik, Lee & Miller, & Baker.
I have to say that I felt I couldn't not vote for the guys who were responsible for me being in the right section to find the later female authors.
I do note that Norton must have been called YA as well, like the Heinlein wasn't?

Re: For ease of reference...

[matt-ruff.livejournal.com]

OK, that probably explains the absence of The Hobbit, as well...

I'd have bet Rowling for the #2 slot if she were on the ballot.

[heron61.livejournal.com]

Also, the first two women listed aren't actually SF&F authors (one because she lived well before modern SF&F existed, the other because she's a mainstream author).

[matt-ruff.livejournal.com]

Like others, I'm a little surprised that Shelley was the top woman author. I'd have guessed Rowling (if eligible), Ayn Rand (if nominated), or LeGuin (who also seems to have fallen victim to the no-YA rule, since Earthsea was excluded).

[cofax7]

Ah, what a surprise. (not)

[jsburbidge.livejournal.com]

It's an odd list in other ways. The top half of it is dominated by dead authors; the bottom half, by living ones. If we note that several of the living authors are inactive (Bradbury, Keys (at least as regards SF)) it skews the balance even more in that direction.

[bastets-place.livejournal.com]

my brain exploded on the idea that the Lord of the Rings trilogy was "A" "science fiction" book.

I mean, it was three (counts on fingers - yup, trilogy is three) and it wasn't real science-y.

But that discussion has been had elsewhere, I am sure.

Re: For ease of reference...

[davidgoldfarb.livejournal.com]

Having met him, I can assure you that it is reliable on this particular point.

[jamesenge.livejournal.com]

It's not really a trilogy, just a novel that fills three volumes. But they seem to be counting series as single works (e.g. the Foundation trilogy).

[movingfinger.livejournal.com]

I always wonder if Shelley is on these lists for tickybox reasons ("Of course, Frankenstein is the first modern science fiction..."), because I do not run across many people who have read it.

[ambyr.livejournal.com]

in a breakdown by authors, not books, what percentage of the top 237 were female versus male?

38 to 128; almost indistinguishable from the ratio of female/male-authored books.

Re: For ease of reference...

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

They blocked a couple other things (like "paranormal romance") pretty transparently to keep the Twilight books off the list, too. (Not that I'm complaining there.)

[wynnsfolly.livejournal.com]

thanks
while I am not anyone's prime demographic - more the anti-demographic when it comes to marketing - I am pleased to report that the gender balance of our own bookshelves run far more to even or else female-heavy.

[nathan helfinstine (from livejournal.com)]

Ah yes, "die Atwoodschlechtmachenfest". Always a good time!

[chrysostom476.livejournal.com]

Tolkien was quite vigorous in his insistence that it was not a trilogy. And correctly so-he would have published it as a single volume, if he'd been able to find a publisher crazy enough to do it.

[chrysostom476.livejournal.com]

James, what would YOUR list be? Curious as to the female % of that list?

[lisa-marli.livejournal.com]

It's actually seven books and an index, which Tolkien wanted published as One Book, and his editor split into three books. And started publishing Before he was done with the Index, which made Book Three very late and drove his then fan base insane. Yes, I do have a few friends who were alive when they first came out in hardback.
Glad I bought the Ballentines as a set. ;)

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I _do_ have it published in single volume :-) Big one, with Alan Lee drawings...

[pauldormer.livejournal.com]

I re-read it earlier this year - just before going to see the dramatisation at the National Theatre in London. Definitely SF - it's full of info-dumps.

[michaelgr.livejournal.com]

Better read the post's title again; It's a science fiction and fantasy list.

[viktor-haag.livejournal.com]

The more I see lists like this, the more I am convinced that they exist to serve only a single purpose: to have people post about them, stirring up lots of furious discussion (and impressions on the [insert listing org here] web assets). Especially referendum lists that provide [insert listing org here] with ga-zords of impressions merely to generate the list in the first place.

On a side note -- I'm quite interested in how exactly these list makers felt justified in collapsing, for example, all of Herbert's Dune books into a single entry, or all of Donaldson's Convenant books into a single entry. I'm sure they'll say "ah well the series is all really one big story, and besides this gives other worthy books kicks at the list". Really? Are you really saying that a huge proportion of your voters listed "Thomas Convenant Chronicles" as their choice? Are you really saying that more people voted for Donaldson's "Fatal Revenant" than Russ's "The Female Man"? Heck, I even wonder whether "The Power That Preserves" got more votes than "The Female Man" (or "Mists of Avalon" or "Dhalgren" or "The Dying Earth" or "The Stars My Destination" or any of the "Fafhrd and Grey Mouser" books as other books that seem interestingly absent--by which I don't necessarily mean that I think these books are good books, or deserve to be in "the top 100 whatever the hell that means", but simply that I find their absences interesting).

It amuses me that there's a hell of a lot of riding-in-on-coat-tails going on in this list, including some (hilariously) of vapour-ware books that might never even see the light of day... (one is also curious whether Sanderson gets to ride in on Jordan's coat-tails or whether the Jordan entry means "really only the ones that Robert himself wrote"..)

Feh.

[chrysostom476.livejournal.com]

Me too. That's not really comparable to what Tolkien was facing at the time, though.

[andrewwheeler.livejournal.com]

Oh noes! A popular vote has led to a list of books that lots of people like, and those are THE WRONG BOOKS!

Whatever can we do to reeducate the masses and force them to love Big Brother?

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

OK, who had "four days" in the pool?

[womzilla.livejournal.com]

Martin showed up in the top 5 of a few Best Fantasy lists from 2009 that I found when researching a response to a similar comment on another blog. Certainly the show has increased his visibility by a significant degree, but the popularity of the books lead to the show, not the other way 'round.