About Doug Hoff's Empty America

[james_davis_nicoll]

I can't seem to find the first entry. What prevented anyone from migrating to the New World before the Vikings?

[Answered in comments: It's not specified in the initial post]

If you prevent anyone from coming over the top of the world it won't prevent the Polynesians from colonizing the Americas (Sweet potatoes got to Polynesia from the New World Somehow). Well, it won't unless you have extremely well aimed butterflies, able to use the secondary and tertiary effects of whatever the barrier to colonization is up north to prevent anyone from using the trans-Pacific route.

Comments

[gohover.livejournal.com]

I'm going to give you a personal answer, because when you think about power and bigotry, I think it is helpful to think back to when you were nine years old.

When I was nine years old, and for all of my childhood, I was the only Jewish kid in my grade (and one of two in my whole school). I got picked on quite a bit. The kids and I were not aware that their actions could carry any cultural and historical weight. And the taunts did not reflect any bigotry of their parents - they didn't think that Jews killed Christ or anything like that. They were just aware that I didn't celebrate Christmas, and that was good enough for them. I wasn't aware of any cultural or historical weight either -- I was just aware of my hurt feelings, and they were gleefully aware that they had caused some.

You know what was liberating for me? I went to an out-of-state summer camp for Jewish kids. For the whole time I was there, no one picked on me because I was Jewish. The kids picked on me for other things instead! I was a weird little kid who was inevitably going to get picked on for something! I learned that Jewish kids aren't any different than Christian kids when it comes to their capacity to be cruel to oddballs.

My wife and I were married two years ago this summer, and we want to start a family soon. If I'm fortunate enough to become a parent, and I find that my kid is part of a cluster of Jewish kids picking on a sole Christian kid, I'm not going to think about cultural and historical weight. I'm going to remember kids' universal ability to cruel, and I'm going try my best to teach my child to not be cruel.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think that all of us are nine year olds deep down inside, and all of us react in similar ways when we are treated with bigotry. Everyone deserves better. Making a distinction regarding cultural and historical weight might be interesting in a theoretical or academic sense, but I don't think it is a useful distinction if you are disdaining real world racism/racial prejudice/bigotry/oppression/cruelty.

There is more to say about Wrede's book, of course, but I'd rather focus on the idea that racism is prejudice + power. Power isn't always some abstract historical force -- sometimes it is just a gang of little kids, no matter their chronological age.

[mollydot.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the reply.

I partially agree with you - cruelty is bad (and kids are good at it), whatever group the tormentor and victim are from.

But I do think there are some actions which are bad/worse as part of a pattern. For example, asking a black person about their hair. I wouldn't mind at all if someone asked me about my hair. I might find it weird, depending on circumstances, but the question itself would likely be non-offensive (depending on how asked, of course). But from what I hear, it gets old for black people. It's asked again and again. It says you're different and weird, whether the questioners mean that or not. So, I would see that as something that is only bad as part of a pattern.

I remember, as a teen, being taught to skim stones by a boy. After a bit, he said "you're pretty good", so I started to be pleased. Then he added "for a girl". That made me feel rather inferior. I wouldn't have minded if he'd said "for a beginner", but saying "for a girl", together with over a decade of subtle cultural messages telling me that boys are better... well, I would have felt less bad if he'd said "you're pretty bad". I reckon if I'd been a boy being taught by a girl who had said "for a boy", it would have been much easier to laugh off. So that's an example where I think something is worse as part of a pattern.

Another, more drastic example, would be bigotry related murder. While the victim is just as dead no matter what group they and the murderer belong to, and it's just as awful for the family and friends, I reckon say someone being murdered/attacked by a straight person for being gay is more threatening for other gay people than a straight person being killed by a gay person for being straight would be for other straight people. The first would be another example/reminder of how gay people are violently hated by some; the second, I personally have never heard of. In fact, the second might even be more threatening for gay people than straight, because of fear of retaliatory attacks.

On the substantive issue of whether it's ok to write certain groups out of history, well, I haven't come down firmly on either side. But I must admit, I'm paying more attention to your argument now that I know you're Jewish! Am I being prejudiced? :-) But seriously, you would have a much better idea how Jews (and one particular Jew especially :-) ) would feel to be written out than I would.

And also because you replied. I was just skimming before. I just picked up on your last paragraph cos it looks very like the "you're the racist" argument on the anti-racism bingo card. (worth a google if you're interested)