I know I've asked this before

[james_davis_nicoll]

I was reading a mystery last night that turned out to be a lot shorter than I expected because the manuscript pages were single-sided. The book turned out to be less than 280 pages long. Despite this lack of length the author managed to fit an entire plot between the two covers.

It's comparatively rare for an SF novel to be that short and nearly unheard of for a fantasy novel to be under 300 pages. I've also never seen a mystery that came close to the brick-like dimensions of many F&SF novels. There seems to be a hard limit of about 400 pages over in mystery.

Mysteries also eschew the cliff-hanger ending and the book-fragment approach, which I greatly appreciate.

Does it make sense to ask why modern [1] F&SF readers appear to prefer longer lengths than do mystery readers?

1: I have a number of older books upstairs that come in under 200 pages and like the mystery they all have complete plots.

Comments

Re: Technology.

[galbinus-caeli.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the correction and amplification.

[papersky.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes that is two, was two, in one cover. That isn't a secret! I wrote a trilogy of three 93,000 word novels and they published it in two volumes. Go figure. It probably does indicate something about people wanting fat fantasies, or publishers thinking they do anyway.

Re: Anderson

[scentofviolets.livejournal.com]

Okay, then, here's the challenge: why don't you write something that conveys the same information in as little space that is not an infodump? Don't tell me, show me.

The point here is that there are different kinds of infodumps. You want to work in the fact that magic is operant to an audience that's already familiar with the trope, that's one thing. Depicting a highly idiosyncratic, historically contingent series of events is quite another.

As I said, I'm willing to be proven wrong, just show me how you would do it.

[scentofviolets.livejournal.com]

That's a weird example to use, because it could have a great deal of significance later on. I seem to vaguely recall something along those lines where the protagonist was, um, forcibly conceived, and many years later while pursuing a similar case, found out that the supposed criminal he was investigating was his father.

So, I'm curious. What did you think the author meant to imply by including all those pages and pages? Imho, the author conveyed a great deal of relevant information. I'm also guessing that you don't know a great deal about programming languages.

[roseembolism.livejournal.com]

As far as the example goes, whatever significance one's parentage may have later in the book, I don't see how it would be served to have pages devoted to the sperm swimming up the fallopean tubes and the protein changes in the ovum as it journeys toward the uterus.

I know a modest amount about programming languages, though I'm far from a professional programmer. I'm also not so enamored of programming that I will read in rapt awe someone's description of such in a fiction novel. As for what I think the author intended to convey, the impression I got was that he was so pleased at having thought out the process, that he just HAD to share it with everybody, no matter how much of a waste of space it was. That and he probably was being paid by the word.

IMO, the author conveyed a huge deal of extraneous information, in an exceedingly lengthy and boring manner, and that had little to do with anything important later on. Then again, maybe a hundred or so pages after I quit it would have become key information; the point is, by that point I was so bored with the book that I tossed it away and haven't picked it up since.

Life is short, and I have a lot of things to do; it's OK by my standards to simply tell something if it will actually get the story moving.

[scentofviolets.livejournal.com]

Mmmph. Checking my copy(assuming we are talking about the same book), the material you are objecting to runs from page five to at most page twenty-seven. More probably, from page five, to pages ten to fourteen. That's not fifty+ pages, your original claim. It's more like six to ten pages.

The point of this discourse, imho, was to show how certain processes such life, consciousness, etc, all share the same type of form, and that form happens to be ubiquitous in nature. Which was reflected in the programming language and the birth of the protagonist.

You missed a few funny bits, btw. Did you get to the part where Inoshiro is scared to death of an empty can of Coke, with it's potential for 'meme parasitation'? To the point where he's going to melt it down?

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

As far as the example goes, whatever significance one's parentage may have later in the book, I don't see how it would be served to have pages devoted to the sperm swimming up the fallopean tubes and the protein changes in the ovum as it journeys toward the uterus.

Chase scenes are a popular kind of plot-filler and this one would have a cast of billions, most of whom won't make to the end of the book.

[roseembolism.livejournal.com]

Page five to twenty-seven? Twenty-three freaking pages? Geez, that's what, 1/14th of an entire old-school SF novel? That was 23 pages of reading time that bastard stole from me, that I am NEVER going to get back, all in the service of a hoary SF discourse that needed two pages, max.

I confess I don't remember the "memetic parasitation" scene; it was a long time ago, and I've read a lot of more interesting things since then.

[roseembolism.livejournal.com]

Maybe in the movie version they could do it to "Yakkity Sax"?