For the record, I did not get the PSA that other people have been getting in the mail

[james_davis_nicoll]

Apparently there are new rules for voting here in Canada. One wonders what the intention is, given that we've not had a huge problem with people voting under false names in previous elections.

When you vote, you MUST prove your identity and address. You have three options:



1: Provide one original piece of identification issued by a government or government agency containing your photo, name and address.

Examples
Driver’s Licence
Health Card
This applies only to Ontario
Note: Not all electors in Ontario will have cards with photo, name and address
Provincial/Territorial Identification Card (non-drivers) for the provinces/territories of
Newfoundland and Labrador
Prince Edward Island
Nova Scotia
New Brunswick
Alberta
British Columbia
Northwest Territories

2: Provide two original pieces of identification authorized by the Chief Electoral Officer of Canada. Both pieces must contain your name, and one must also contain your address. Here is the list:

Identity Cards
Health Card
Social Insurance Number Card
Birth Certificate
Driver’s Licence
Canadian Passport
Certificate of Indian Status
Certificate of Canadian Citizenship or Citizenship Card
Credit/Debit Card with elector name
Canadian Forces Identity Card
Veterans Affairs Canada Health Card
Employee Card issued by employer
Old Age Security Identification Card
Public Transportation Card
Student ID Card
Library Card
Liquor Identification Card
Canadian Blood Services/Héma-Québec Card
Hospital Card
Fishing Licence
Wildlife Identification Card
Hunting Licence
Firearm Acquisition Card/Firearm Possession Card
Outdoors Card and Licences
Provincial/Territorial Identification Card
Local Community Service Centre Card (CLSC)
Original documents (containing name and address)
Credit Card Statement
Bank Statement
Utility Bill (residential telephone, cable TV, public utilities commission, hydro, gas or water)
Attestation of Residence issued by the responsible authority of an Indian band or reserve
Local Property Tax Assessment
School, College or University Report Card or Transcript
Residential Lease, Residential Mortgage Statement or Agreement
Canada Child Tax Benefit Statement
Income Tax Assessment Notice
Insurance Policy
Government Cheque or Government Cheque Stub with elector name
Statement of Employment Insurance Benefits Paid (T4E)
Canada Pension Plan Statement of Contributions/Quebec Pension Plan Statement of Participation
Statement of Old Age Security (T4A) or Statement of Canada Pension Plan Benefits (T4AP)
Statement of Benefits from provincial workplace safety or insurance board
Statement of Direct Deposit for provincial works or provincial disability support program
Vehicle Ownership
Vehicle Insurance
Attestation of Residence issued by the responsible authorities (shelters, soup kitchens, student/senior residences, long-term care facilities)
Letter from public curator

Note: A document bearing an address may be used as proof of the elector’s address if this address was written by the issuer of the document and is the same as or consistent with the address on the list of electors. No document other than those included on this list may be accepted to establish the name and address of an elector.

3: You can be vouched for by an elector whose name appears on the list of electors in the same polling division and who has an acceptable piece or pieces of identification. Both will be required to make a sworn statement. An elector cannot vouch for more than one person, and the person who has been vouched for cannot vouch for another elector.

Comments

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

That "elector cannot vouch for more than one person" is going to be a nuisance for students who live in groups - one of them can take the utility bill and vouch for one other, but without advance planning others aren't necessarily going to have proof of local address.

I'm going to the advance poll in a few hours, waving my brand-new Alberta driver's licence.

[schizmatic.livejournal.com]

I think that voter fraud might be something of a problem. After all, I'm an American citizen and I received that thing in the mail that tells me to vote. Then, I had an election worker come by to register me. So I helpfully explained to him that I was not a Canadian citizen. He was a bit confused, since apparently my name was on the list (I can only assume it happened when I renewed my driver's license).

So I'm pretty sure that I could have easily committed voter fraud. Out of my magnanimity towards my host nation, the nation whose taxpayers have inexplicably decided to finance my doctoral education, I declined the opportunity.

I'll still be taking your tax dollars until 31 August 2009, though.

[galbinus-caeli.livejournal.com]

They are doing this in the states a lot.

The purported idea is to prevent voter fraud.

The apparent idea is to suppress votes for the poor and under privileged, who have a supposed tendency to support one party over another.

The thinking is that most well off people will already have government issued identification, drivers/driving license or passport, but a lesser number of less well off people will. If you don't own a car and ride the bus everyday, you don't need a driver's license, if you make $10/hour, you are unlikely to be traveling overseas.

Requiring an id is a minimal hardship for the well off, just show the license that you carry all the time anyway. But harder for the poor, since they have to make the extra effort to acquire a special purpose document first, one that they have not needed in any other area of their life.

[liabrown]

Stan got two voter's cards in the mail, and I got nothing (a change from the usual situation, in which I get the card and he gets nothing). I don't have a driver's licence or a photo ID health card, so I hope they'll take one of those other cards/documents.

[xinef.livejournal.com]

The thing is, most of the ID required does not require citizenship, only residency. So you'd still be able to vote, assuming you could come up with the necessary proof of address, just because your name got onto that list somehow.

[schizmatic.livejournal.com]

That's kind of a good point. Maybe the idea was to prevent voter fraud, but no one thought it through very carefully. Which is, granted, the kind of thing I expect more from the south of the border bureaucracy that that of the True North Strong and Free, but still unsurprising.

[xinef.livejournal.com]

Yup. Most of the ID options are enough to reasonably confirm that you are the person on the list. But do nothing to prove that you are actually eligible to vote or not. The only documents which prove citizenship are Birth Certificate (if born in Canada), Canadian Passport, Certificate of Canadian Citizenship or Citizenship Card, and probably Certificate of Indian Status (I don't know what info is on that card).

[james-nicoll.livejournal.com]

On the simple imcompetence side, there's this bit of evidence that ReforaTories don't necessarily think things through:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/10/23/elections-glitch.html

But this sure does look like it's aimed at keep the wrong sort of voter from voting.

[movingfinger.livejournal.com]

It happens in the US too; I married a resident noncitizen and somehow afterward both names got onto the voting list (before, only I was registered). We straightened it out but it was a bit startling---no voter registration card had been filled out! This was twenty years ago, so possibly in small towns things are a bit tighter---but probably not.

I do think resident noncitizens should be eligible to vote in local elections (municipal). No doubt that would create enormous ballot confusion.

[mindstalk.livejournal.com]

Although if you want to drink legally, you need an ID. Possibly an expired one, though.

[oldsma.livejournal.com]

And yet one's birth certificate from (e.g) Ontario would still exist if one had naturalized in the USA. And does Canada automatically confer citizenship to everyone who is born there, anyway?

MAO

[galbinus-caeli.livejournal.com]

Only if there is any question about your age. If you have been buying booze from the same local liquor store for thirty years from a guy you went to high school with, you probably can get away with pointing at your grey hair.

[ckd]

Wikipedia sez "In general, anyone born in Canada from 1947 onwards acquired Canadian citizenship at birth. The only exceptions concern children born to diplomats, where additional requirements apply."

Naturalization in the US also doesn't seem to be any issue as far as Canada is concerned, at least since the 1977 citizenship law.

[xinef.livejournal.com]

It is actually difficult these days to lose one's birth citizenship. I know that Canada recognizes dual citizenship. The US was forced to a number of years ago, as well.

[xinef.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, I wonder if that could result in a call to make the results invalid? What an idiotic oversight.

[xinef.livejournal.com]

Just realized that article is a year old. Any idea if this got fixed in the meantime?

[(Anonymous)]

Liquor Identification Card -- looks like a drivers license. Proof of age when entering a drinking establishment/buying booze. Work-around for non-drivers who are not non-drinkers.

Wildlife Identification Card -- believe this is the general category of cards issued to hunters and anglers to prove you're entitled to purchase tags or licenses because you have passed the requisite safety courses. Ontario version is the "Ontario Outdoor Card".

-- Graydon

[maruad.livejournal.com]

When I saw it I assumed they had borrowed the idea from the Republicans who are using it to reduce turnout of non-Republican voters. The fact that they botched it and accidently excluded rural voters is not surprising either.

[auriaephiala.livejournal.com]

In terms of "No taxation without representation"? Up to about a decade or two ago, non-Canadians were allowed to vote municipally in Ontario, and then it was tightened up.

Would it matter if municipal property taxes were replaced by municipal income taxes?

I'm of two minds on this: on the one hand, people who live here should have a voice in issues which directly affect them. On the other hand, citizenship should mean something. Is there a clear difference between municipal voting and federal/provincial voting?

[auriaephiala.livejournal.com]

I received one of the ID reminder cards early this week.

I don't think it's just a borrowing from down South -- it's a bit more nuanced than that and is more related to veiled voters in Quebec.

For most people, it just involves showing your driver's license. For those w/o driver's licenses, or students, it's more of a nuisance, but Elections Canada has, to their credit, offered a LOT of options to prove your identity & residency.

It's amusing, though, that a passport is NOT enough on its own...

[joenotcharles.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm sure it got fixed - that's the million Canadians live out in the country and tend to vote Conservative.

[kraig.livejournal.com]

I used to have a New Brunswick liquor ID, which had a photo, and a Nova Scotian driver's license, which didn't. I assume all provinces have photos on their driver's licenses now, but I'm not *that* old.

[(Anonymous)]

Since fishing and hunting licenses were already listed, I was a bit confused.

Thanks!

[montrealais.livejournal.com]

What browns me off is the whole address thing. Not every province issues ID cards with addresses on them to non-drivers! Quebec doesn't for example -- I don't have any photo ID with my address (other than the handwritten address in my passport, which of course does not count.)

I hate having to go home and dig out a credit card bill whenever I want to do something like this. (I almost missed being the first person to vote in my riding!)

[tsm-in-toronto.livejournal.com]

Actually, dual (or other multiple) citizenship isn't up to a country to acknowledge or recognize, as such. If country A says you are a citizen, and country B does also, country B cannot decide you are not a citizen of country A, only that you are not a citizen of country B.

That is, Canada could decide (it hasn't) that acceptance of (say) US citizenship voided your Canadian citizenship, but it can't tell you that you are not (or that you are) a US citizen. And visa versa.

He wrote, semi-incoherently.

Put more simply, citizenship is always a matter of domestic law.

IANAL, and this commentary of mine is worth every penny you paid for it.

Cheers.

[sraun]

It's amusing, though, that a passport is NOT enough on its own...

Yeah, I had the same response. Given everything else, I think I know why - the passport proves that you're a Canadian citizen, but (if it's anything like the US passport) doesn't have any residency information on it. So you have to have a residency proof to go with it.

The theory being that you have to keep your address current on your drivers license, but not for your passport.

[ookpik.livejournal.com]

A performer (singer-songwriter) whom I saw recently mentioned that she holds dual citizenship (child of US parents, born in Quebec). Recently she did a concert tour in Europe, during which her US passport was stolen, so she used her Canadian passport as ID when returning to the US.

She was detained at Customs for several hours by a Homeland Security goon who indignantly informed her that the US "does not recognize dual citizenship" and went on a tirade that included "and if we went to war with Canada, whose side would you be on?"

I don't know what her actual response was, but when she told the story she grinned ruefully and said "hmmm...good question."

[xinef.livejournal.com]

True. The US used to automatically revoke citizenship if you took citizenship in another country. No longer the case. My mother lost her US citizenship when she took Canadian citizenship in the early 70s. She's since gotten it back and has a current US passport.

I currently have two valid passports, one US and one Canadian, and could hold a third, UK. I was born in England and my mother registered me with the US as a child born of a US parent overseas. Came to Canada as a child and was made a Canadian citizen when my parents did so in the early 70s. Since I had no active part in that, the US didn't consider that I did anything to lose my US citizenship.

[xinef.livejournal.com]

I had an ON version of one of those because my DL didn't have a photo when I turned 18. So it was my only photo id at the time.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

There are also problems of access. In Calif. it's, tolerably, easy to get ID. If you live in a city, there is probably a DMV (which is the agency in charge of ID) within a, not to onerous, bus ride's distance.

But if you live outside a city, harder. If you are in San Miguel, it's 45 miles, and you have to take a greyhound (or bum a ride).

Then there is the issue of work. That bus ride will eat at least two days (service to/from San Miguel is a mid-day, once only deal). So you have to give up two-days pay, and pay $15 to get that ID.

And the poor, for some reason, tend to vote (when the vote) more liberally.