What was

Mar. 5th, 2019 12:57 pm
james_davis_nicoll: (Default)
[personal profile] james_davis_nicoll
What was the name of that speculative fiction novel where the lead cheerfully abandoned all hint of post-enlightenment values the moment they discovered they were a special person?

Date: 2019-03-05 06:01 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Remember - we have to exclude the ones where post-enlightment values were abandoned _before_ the main character realized he was special...

Date: 2019-03-07 03:19 pm (UTC)
mishalak: A fantasy version of myself drawn by Sue Mason with the text, "No, I think I'm happier mocking you than helping." (Mocks You)
From: [personal profile] mishalak
Huh. I am having a hard time deciding if The Magicians counts or not then. Also, it seems likely that everything ever written by Leo Frankowski would be excluded on the basis of all his leads being anti-human rights long before becoming leads.

Also, what about ones where the lead whines the whole time about having to be special by doing the hard things that hard men have do like Ender's Game? I suppose it goes into a category along with The Cold Equations. "Not my fault I had to kill everyone I wanted to kill, it was necessary!"
Edited Date: 2019-03-07 04:36 pm (UTC)

Date: 2019-03-05 06:50 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] keith_morrison
Oo! Oo! I know that one! It's the one where the lead is able to get away with, like, literal murder because they are special as law enforcement/civil authorities totally forget the rules and values they uphold, except for the ones who do insist the rules be followed but they're either just being assholes or are actively working on the side of the bad guys.

Date: 2019-03-07 04:37 pm (UTC)
jbwoodford: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jbwoodford
To paraphrase Frank Wilhoit, heroism consists of exactly one proposition...there must be an individual whom the law protects but does not bind, and adversaries whom the law binds but does not protect.

Date: 2019-03-05 08:21 pm (UTC)
lxe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lxe
LOTR?

Date: 2019-03-06 02:21 am (UTC)
graydon: (Default)
From: [personal profile] graydon
Everything in LOTR was solidly pre-enlightenment; JRRT arguably viewed the enlightenment as a grave error.

Date: 2019-03-06 11:55 am (UTC)
jsburbidge: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jsburbidge
The only person who sounds vaguely Enlightenment-ish is Saruman, in the speech Gandalf reports at Rivendell.

Date: 2019-03-07 12:48 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ba_munronoe
OTOH, Middle Earth outside of Sauron & Co. seems oddly lacking in such good old fashioned pre-enlightenment values as slavery, judicial use of torture for extracting confession, peasant revolts and the murderous crushing of, serfdom, and burning people alive for incorrect views of Eru. Perhaps he didn't have enough room in the book.

Date: 2019-03-07 02:51 am (UTC)
jsburbidge: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jsburbidge
Check the Second Age appendices and the Akallabeth.

Date: 2019-03-05 08:59 pm (UTC)
kedamono: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kedamono
Dune et. al.?

Date: 2019-03-05 09:50 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
(typeity type-type *Enter*) "About 1,700,000 results (0.51 seconds)"

Riderius

Date: 2019-03-05 09:59 pm (UTC)
jreynolds197: A dinosaur. (Default)
From: [personal profile] jreynolds197
Jack Reacher books occasionally have elements of speculative fiction.

If anyone is special, it sure is Reacher. Going around killing people and beating them up with impunity - all part of the fantasy, I guess.

Date: 2019-03-06 02:02 am (UTC)
jreynolds197: A dinosaur. (Default)
From: [personal profile] jreynolds197
Another thought: Soon I Will be Invincible. Doc Impossible is never well socialized, regardless of the continuity he's currently in.

Fatal does have some qualms about acting outside the law. However, the other "white capes" are pretty cavalier about things like due process, etc.

Date: 2019-03-06 09:13 am (UTC)
scott_sanford: (Default)
From: [personal profile] scott_sanford
Doctor Impossible would freely admit he is a supervillain. It's not as if he ever pretended to uphold conventional values.

Date: 2019-03-06 01:50 pm (UTC)
jreynolds197: A dinosaur. (Default)
From: [personal profile] jreynolds197
True. Who can forget the immortal line of dialogue: "Greetings, insects!" However, I was thinking of before he became a supervillain, back when he was "the Zeta Beam guy". He wasn't politically engaged then - actively or philosophically. But he might have absorbed Enlightenment values before he got his powers.

OK, OK. I'm stretching here!

Date: 2019-03-06 10:56 pm (UTC)
roseembolism: (Default)
From: [personal profile] roseembolism
Admittedly, that attitude comes back to bite the heroes (and the authorities that enabled them) at least once.

Date: 2019-03-05 10:19 pm (UTC)
philrm: (Default)
From: [personal profile] philrm
You're just never going to run out of these, are you?
Edited Date: 2019-03-05 10:20 pm (UTC)

Date: 2019-03-05 10:31 pm (UTC)
mindstalk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mindstalk
Usually he picks ones where people can actually name titles.

Date: 2019-03-05 11:18 pm (UTC)
kedamono: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kedamono
The Flinx series...

Date: 2019-03-06 04:08 pm (UTC)
seawasp: (Default)
From: [personal profile] seawasp
Flinx? I never noticed his core values shifting that much. He started out a loner doing what he could get away with to make a living and not trying to hurt other people too much, and I don't think he changed much, the scale of things just blew up on him.

Date: 2019-03-05 11:53 pm (UTC)
lokifan: black Converse against a black background (Default)
From: [personal profile] lokifan
Are you definitely thinking of a novel and not a comic? Like, most comics?

Date: 2019-03-06 02:43 am (UTC)
kathmandu: Close-up of pussywillow catkins. (Default)
From: [personal profile] kathmandu
The Summer Tree / The Fionavar Tapestry, by Guy Gavriel Kay. Particularly noticeable for the way the *law students* happily accept might-makes-right as the basis of an entire government and social system.

Date: 2019-03-06 03:41 am (UTC)
dragoness_e: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dragoness_e
Could you clarify what you mean by "post-enlightenment values"? Are we talking about basically the ideals behind the American Revolution? Or are we talking about something that came after that and was the reverse of that?
Edited Date: 2019-03-06 03:44 am (UTC)

Date: 2019-03-06 12:45 pm (UTC)
jsburbidge: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jsburbidge
What exactly is meant by "post-Enlightenment" here? Because a really large part of the Enlightenment was all about absolutist Philosopher-Kings, and a second wave, as an alternative, about violent revolutionary government dedicated to establishing ideological conformity by extensive executions.

Date: 2019-03-06 10:59 pm (UTC)
roseembolism: (Default)
From: [personal profile] roseembolism
Lord Kalvin of Otherwhen?

Glory Road?

Witch World?

Date: 2019-03-10 06:22 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Four stories which fit the pattern after the protagonist suddenly grows more intelligent:

Ringworld Engineers (Teela) and Protector (Brennan) by Larry Niven
The Turning Option by Marvin Minsky and Harry Harrison
Understand by Ted Chiang
Flowers for Algernon ha ha just kidding.

Date: 2019-03-10 05:32 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Although the first Google result for (minsky harrison) disagrees, their collaboration appears to be titled specifically THE TURING OPTION, no doubt named after Steven Turing. :-)

I think I took four goes spelling "collaboration".

Robert Carnegie

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