No link

Date: 2019-01-27 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
It looks like a link, but it's not.

Date: 2019-01-27 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oh6
Interesting to see the pre-swoopy cover!

having read the review

Date: 2019-01-27 04:55 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oh6
And I see that this is the pre-pre-swoopy cover.

Date: 2019-01-27 06:08 pm (UTC)
bolindbergh: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bolindbergh
My copy is the 1980 UK edition.

What I don't understand is why the publisher failed to use The Extended ARM of Gil Hamilton as the title of the superseding collection.

Date: 2019-01-27 06:12 pm (UTC)
anne: (Default)
From: [personal profile] anne
The plot-relevant cigarette! Which is another way to recognize a 1960s text.

Date: 2019-01-27 06:41 pm (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Watercolour of barn owl perched on post. (Default)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
How could anyone seriously think that draconian anti-procreation laws were going to need to be a universal thing in the mid seventies?

Date: 2019-01-27 08:30 pm (UTC)
jbwoodford: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jbwoodford
It helps a great deal if one is born to the monied class, and has no real grasp of what people on lower socioeconomic strata are really like.

Date: 2019-01-27 11:19 pm (UTC)
armiphlage: (Default)
From: [personal profile] armiphlage
Many of Niven's attempts to relate to regular people read as if written by an alien.

Date: 2019-01-28 12:41 pm (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Watercolour of barn owl perched on post. (Default)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
Yes, that's it - it's not just that he's insulated by economic and male privilege, it's as if he'd never lived with people. I mean, didn't he notice the effect the Pill had on society?

Date: 2019-01-28 02:34 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I think Niven thinks this *is* noticing the Pill: he's fond of bullshit evolutionary psychology, so he's probably postulating that the availability of birth control makes evolution select for baby rabies.

Date: 2019-01-28 05:42 pm (UTC)
graydon: (Default)
From: [personal profile] graydon
That's explicit in the Niven-produced intro material to an organlegger story in at least one of the collections. Contraception selects for fecundity.

Date: 2019-01-29 01:32 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ba_munronoe
In only six or so generations? That's some amazingly fast evolution.

Date: 2019-01-29 02:00 am (UTC)
graydon: (Default)
From: [personal profile] graydon
If we consider how fast the population of Earth homogenized to produce Flatlanders, we can suppose -- we nearly must suppose -- there was meddling involved, and then the habitual fecundity can be viewed as anything from an unwanted oops, excusable to the UN government remove the blight of ethnic strife, to a cynically inserted justification for oppression, to an acceptable side effect for removing the genetic basis for brains subject to depression, to something that's still being argued about, deep in secret UN labs; maybe it's the food additives?

Date: 2019-01-29 06:02 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ba_munronoe
And how early did the Puppeteers get involved?

Date: 2019-01-28 12:39 pm (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Watercolour of barn owl perched on post. (Default)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
.... and is a man.

But even so!

Date: 2019-01-29 04:52 pm (UTC)
jbwoodford: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jbwoodford
I figured he thought that the women that he knew--the ones who didn't want that many kids--were exceptional because they were smart. Unlike the underclass, whose lack of intelligence and foresight is demonstrated by their low incomes.

Though he may also have picked that up from Heinlein or JEP. _Legacy of Heorot_, IIRC, had the incredibly smart folks settling the new planet all wanting lots of kids, and I think JEP dropped that little bit in there.

Date: 2019-01-27 08:39 pm (UTC)
bibliofile: Fan & papers in a stack (from my own photo) (Default)
From: [personal profile] bibliofile
No tags?

Date: 2019-01-27 08:52 pm (UTC)
sethsellis: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sethsellis
We had this edition when I was a kind, with the Egon-Schiele-but-not-on-purpose cover illustration. I remember it bothered me that you could see the entire top of Gil's mental arm, right through his still-physical shoulder. And either his invisible arm refracts light like glass or his left arm has some serious problems as well.

I liked this collection at the time, though in an unenthusiastic kind of way. Even then I thought he was way too wide-eyed about how ubiquitous the organ trade might become.

Date: 2019-01-28 02:06 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ba_munronoe
Call me a cynic, but if universal rejection-free transplantation actually became possible, I suspect there would be a massive black market.

Date: 2019-01-29 11:52 am (UTC)
scott_sanford: (Default)
From: [personal profile] scott_sanford
The missed technology here is easy DNA sequencing.

If ARM had as much tissue matching ability we've got today, rounding up organleggers would be a matter of watching the hospitals and transplant lists. As Gil Hamilton observes, nobody goes to an organlegger unless they're dying anyway - why else draw yourself to the attention of someone who sees you as a pile of expensive spare parts? Everyone who's after a transplant should leave that list by getting one or going into the morgue; the exceptions are ARM's suspect list.

Once ARM finds someone, it's straightforward to match their new organ to the original owner. Since they're demonstrably complicit in a murder, and carrying around the evidence inside them for the rest of their lives, the legal case is simple; one of Hamilton's associates gives them the option of turning state's evidence or going to the organ banks.

Hamilton also notes that sales is the most hazardous part of the scheme and that organlegging gangs go through a lot of expendable foot soldiers. It's not clear if ARM doesn't give them the "spill everything or die" option, but if they're allowed to do so the street thugs should be highly motivated to rat out their bosses.

The most plausible answer seems to be that ARM is under-funded for the mission it has. Organlegging is not a sustainable business plan if there is serious opposition but token enforcement and public capture of low-level grunts may be all the UN is willing to pay for. As a real world example notice how long Trump's associates got away with profitable scams only thinly concealed, and how quickly they're all coming apart now that law enforcement is actually paying attention to them.

Date: 2019-01-27 09:31 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] agharta75
Not the best Niven, but he could have done (and did do) a lot worse ...
Edited Date: 2019-01-27 09:32 pm (UTC)

Date: 2019-01-27 10:39 pm (UTC)
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)
From: [personal profile] redbird
I suspect there's a research paper, or at least a snarky article, to be gotten out of the numerous childless people who are sure that it would take draconian laws to stop Those Other People from having lots of children. (Wikipedia's article on Niven has little on his personal life, but says that he's been married to the same woman for decades; the existence of children is the sort of fact they generally include.)

Date: 2019-01-28 12:21 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I'm reminded of Heinlein: no kids, writes obsessively about child-having. Reading between the lines of Patterson's hagiography, it is obvious that gonorrhea explains much about that.

Date: 2019-01-28 12:43 pm (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Watercolour of barn owl perched on post. (Default)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
I suppose it's possible that he is not childless by choice, struggling with it, and can't imagine why people who can have kids might not, but surely he'd have noticed that America isn't actually knee deep in fourteen child families?

Date: 2019-01-28 01:07 pm (UTC)
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)
From: [personal profile] redbird
If so, it doesn't show up in his fiction in the same way as in Heinlein's, as far as I can remember. Heinlein had the stories driven partly by overpopulation, and the adult characters who were actively interesred in if not obsessed with having children. Heinlein put that interest largely on the female characters, come to think, and (working from memory) Niven left women out of his stories even more than Heinlein did.

[I am doing all this from memory, and not sure I've (re)read any Niven in this century, certainly not in the last few years.]
Edited Date: 2019-01-28 01:09 pm (UTC)

Date: 2019-01-28 01:31 pm (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Watercolour of barn owl perched on post. (Default)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
I've not read any Niven for ages either (and am not much interested in revisiting it), but thinking about it, that matches my memories too, such as they are!

Date: 2019-01-28 06:31 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I have the version with the first cover--I was happy enough with it; it clearly showed the main character, which was better than a lot of covers of that era managed 8-)

I was particularly impressed by the 3rd story when I read it as a teen. The whole idea of exploring what would happen when crossing the boundary of the machine's field, and what it meant that Sinclair was ready to reveal it, are what set the standard for proper SF mystery for me.

Riderius

Date: 2019-01-28 11:20 pm (UTC)
nelc: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nelc
That's the cover of my edition, bought from Dark They Were & Golden-Eyed in London, as I recall. I don't think I was very excited by the cover, but it was distinctive, and I feel kinda nostalgic for it now.

For me, the third story seemed somewhat pedestrian aside from the SF elements, and lacked the characterisation of the first, and the humanity of Gil's compassion for the eponymous corpsicles. I wouldn't like to rate either of the first two stories against each other, but I think they were both better than the last one.

Date: 2019-01-28 11:49 pm (UTC)
dwight_benjamin_thieme: My daughter Ellen in her debut as Rusty from Footloose (Default)
From: [personal profile] dwight_benjamin_thieme
I remember the last story as being the best of the three. Maybe it's just because I haven't read it in thirty years, but it does pass that manila envelope that James mentioned. Plus, a decent (to my younger eyes) exposition of why inertialess drives aren't ftl, aside from the little detail that they would kill you dead dead dead in nothing flat.

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