Date: 2017-08-06 02:47 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Ah. "An incredibly obscure but influential classic" did win the poll...

There might be a series possible for books that anticipate themes that another author makes famous (sympathetic robots that predate Asimov, organlegging stories before Niven, etc.)

Date: 2017-08-06 06:38 pm (UTC)
dwight_benjamin_thieme: My daughter Ellen in her debut as Rusty from Footloose (Default)
From: [personal profile] dwight_benjamin_thieme
Is that the one where the Plant People of Alpha C want to tun the crew into leather belts and briefcases?

Date: 2017-08-06 09:12 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ba_munronoe
IIRC they wanted to eat the crew (and their leather belts and briefcases).

Date: 2017-08-06 08:31 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Exactly (and I learned something new today)

Date: 2017-08-06 08:33 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
How about calling it "Benevolent Precursors" or "Todd Thromberry Lives!"

Date: 2017-08-07 01:29 am (UTC)
dragoness_e: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dragoness_e
- So what's the alien invasion story that predates H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds?
- Or the time travel story that predates Wells' The Time Machine?
- Or the uplifted animals story that predates Wells' Island of Dr. Moreau?
- Or the 'human acquires super-human abilities, is alienated from/rejected by humanity' that predates Wells' The Invisible Man (and several other Wells stories for that matter)?

If you ever read a complete collection of Wells' sci-fi, he apparently invented at least half the themes of modern sci-fi.

Edited (unclosed tag) Date: 2017-08-07 01:29 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-07 01:18 pm (UTC)
mmcirvin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mmcirvin
Henry Schevlin just wrote a guest post on Eric Schwitzgebel's blog about how strange it is that time travel isn't really a trope before the modern era (not quite Wells though):

http://schwitzsplinters.blogspot.com/2017/08/why-was-sci-fi-so-slow-to-discover-time.html

The exception is Rip Van Winkle-like stories of people transported one-way into the future, by oversleeping or by going to some faerie realm where time runs at a different speed. But nobody seems to go back to the past, really, until the 19th century--though tales of prophecy inspire a lot of the same kinds of plots (can you alter the known future or will you just bring it about?)

Seems as if it was sort of steam-engine time for this trope in the late 19th century. The Edward Page Mitchell story he mentions is just a few years before Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court", which is just a few years before the Wells.

Date: 2017-08-07 01:21 pm (UTC)
mmcirvin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mmcirvin
...I guess Wells' first crack at a time-machine story was actually "The Chronic Argonauts", which was one year before the Twain, though after the Mitchell.

Date: 2017-08-08 12:00 pm (UTC)
mmcirvin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mmcirvin
...and DIckens beat them with "A Christmas Carol" by several decades, though it's a different sort of time travel, more like a series of visions.

Date: 2017-08-07 01:42 pm (UTC)
mmcirvin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mmcirvin
...It's also interesting that this science-fiction idea of time as a space-like dimension that you could travel through just slightly predates the theory of relativity ("The Time Machine" speaks explicitly of time as a fourth dimension just about a decade before Poincaré and Minkowski interpreted SR that way). It's as if this set of related ideas was culturally preparing to gel all over the place.

Date: 2017-08-07 01:46 pm (UTC)
mmcirvin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mmcirvin
...and that bit in Wagner's "Parsifal" that freaked out Philip K. Dick, about "time turning into space", was 1882, so right around the same era.

Date: 2017-08-07 08:30 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
H. G. Wells's invasion was precursed by a wave of serialized fictional invasions of England by European nations. Just different aliens. And as for an alienated super-human, how about _Frankenstein_? Or the turn-invisible magic Ring of Gyges, and resulting moral corruption.

Date: 2017-08-06 03:51 pm (UTC)
wild_irises: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wild_irises
In the running for the last book of its time I would have chosen to read or review.

Are your tears delicious to you?

Date: 2017-08-06 06:30 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] neowolf2
I've been wondering how you'd react to Ian Wallace's (not Ian Watson's!) books. Some were wacky.

Date: 2017-08-07 01:32 am (UTC)
dragoness_e: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dragoness_e
...and what's wrong with Edmond Hamilton? Sure, they're pulpy action-adventure Space Opera from the pulp era, and Leigh Brackett was a much better writer in the same genre, and he wasn't quite as wildly imaginative as ERB, but he's not really bad. His stuff is a bit of a brainless Saturday read, if you get my drift.

Date: 2017-08-07 04:48 am (UTC)
austin_dern: Inspired by Krazy Kat, of kourse. (Default)
From: [personal profile] austin_dern
but he's not really bad


I hesitate to sound like I'm being mean but ... like, have you read the Starwolf books recently?

I'll agree there's some good Hamilton out there. But a lot of that seems to be because he wrote 4800 novels and 260,000 short stories and nobody could miss every time.
Edited Date: 2017-08-07 04:48 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-09 01:31 am (UTC)
dragoness_e: NASA F-15A #837 (NASA Starscream)
From: [personal profile] dragoness_e
"Star Kings" wasn't bad. It's been a very long time since I read "Starwolf", and I frequently find that books I devoured in my youth have been visited by the Suck Fairy since then. (e.g. Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion series were all the rage among the cool SF&F fans when I was in college; last time I re-read any of them, the Suck Fairy had definitely hit them.)

I vaguely remember that "Starwolf" used the cringey old trope of "Blood Will Tell", in that the hero turns out to not really be a starwolf by blood, but an Earth human of good family who was kidnapped as a baby and raised among them. Since I thought the Star Wolves were just human space reavers, otherwise they would have noticed that our hero wasn't the same race as they were, this made no sense to me.

Date: 2017-08-07 07:27 pm (UTC)
mmcirvin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mmcirvin
To appreciate his work, you need to apply not just SF reading protocols, but really archaic reading protocols.

Date: 2017-08-06 09:15 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ba_munronoe
At least Link didn't give his robot girlfriend fake female physical attributes: when they're wearing their people suits, they both look like big, burly guys.

Date: 2017-08-06 10:50 pm (UTC)
sethsellis: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sethsellis
I like how hippy Adam Link is in the cover illo. An ineluctably manly robot with a spare tire.

Date: 2017-08-07 12:08 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] keith_morrison
And _serious_ knee joint problems.

Date: 2017-08-07 04:51 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I like the footnote links. Thanks!

-AwesomeAud

Marvel Comics Presents

Date: 2017-08-07 07:55 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
The debut of The Vision (silver age version) may be not the best place to start comparing these stories.

Maybe I shouldn't know or care, but the "Golden Age" (1939) "Human Torch" was an artificial-man "android" in a story produced immediately after Adam Link (it appears). The flames are accidental, and brain-pattern transfer isn't involved.

In 1964, Simon Williams was brainwashed (I think) into attacking the superhero Avengers, but turned good, got killed - all in one issue - and the Avengers made a recording of his brain in the hope of one day resurrecting him. I'm not aware of them doing this before or since, except that Iron Man has at least twice died and continued operating as an A.I. of himself. Including now.

In 1968, Dr Henry Pym of The Avengers used his own brain pattern to build and activate a robot which immediately became the evil Ultron. Ultron then used the brain pattern of Simon Williams to reprogram the 1939 Human Torch - who, due to an interfering "time lord", is simultaneously alive (in 2017) as himself - as "The Vision", to attack The Avengers. The Vision also became a good guy. Later, Ultron kidnapped at different times the wives of Henry Pym and Clint Barton (all of whom are Avengers too) to put their brain patterns into robot brides for himself named Jocasta (Oedipus's mother) and Alkhema (no one in particular). In 2017, all of these marriages are over (and the universe was destroyed, then put back, several times, which I have trouble saying isn't relevant).

This is probably simplified in the films. And I think the brain-pattern thing started with Simon Williams in 1964, but I don't think The Avengers themselves ever tried to re-create Simon. He came back to life himself, anyway.

Re: Marvel Comics Presents

Date: 2017-08-07 05:09 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] keith_morrison
In the film the Vision is the combination of Stark's AI JARVIS and whatever the Mind Stone brought into the mix.

Re: Marvel Comics Presents

Date: 2017-08-07 07:30 pm (UTC)
mmcirvin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mmcirvin
And movie Ultron was Tony Stark's creation (with some help from Bruce Banner), not Pym's. Barton's wife is still alive (not sure about Pym's--I didn't see that movie).
Edited Date: 2017-08-07 07:31 pm (UTC)

Re: Marvel Comics Presents

Date: 2017-08-09 07:18 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
To clarify my earlier statement - as far as I know, Janet Van Dyne (Mrs Pym) and Barbara Morse (Mrs Barton) were living brain-pattern donors to the brides of Ultron - although Janet was supposed to be killed by the process. Ultron's anti-social like that.

Robert Carnegie

Date: 2017-08-07 02:09 pm (UTC)
philrm: (Default)
From: [personal profile] philrm
The first two stories were filmed as a pretty decent second-season episode of the original Outer Limits, although they altered the ending to wrap things up by having the robot destroyed in the act of saving the little girl.

Date: 2017-08-08 12:04 pm (UTC)
mmcirvin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mmcirvin
Young Leonard Nimoy plays a newspaper reporter--this seems to be the most-remarked-on thing about the episode now.

Date: 2017-08-08 12:09 pm (UTC)
mmcirvin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mmcirvin
Also, the episode was remade for the revival series, with Nimoy playing the lawyer and his son directing.

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